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Chronic changing of the rules imperils lasting stability of Eve Online and CCP - eg Datacores
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Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#1 - 2012-05-19 14:38:25 UTC
CCP's plan to sell datacores from FW LP stores disrespects people who have spent years planning, training, and missioning to get standings for maximal research points. It also changes the entire fabric of training and overall game strategy.

...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.

That being said, I've noticed that existing research points for datacores that are dropping in research point price may actually be worth more after the change:

Say you have 150,000 research points in Amarrian Starship Engineering, you could get 1000 datacores at the current rate.
If you wait until after the change, you will be able to get 1500 datacores, it seems.

Say the hypothetical sale price you could get was 100000 isk per datacore,
then

before the change:
1000 datacores x 100000 isk = 100,000,000 isk

after the change:
(1500 datacores x 100000 isk) - (1500 datacores x 10000 isk fee per datacore) = 135,000,000 isk
or
150,000,000 from datacore sales - 15,000,000 in datacore purchase fees = 135,000,000 isk

**************************************************

Finally, I guess the new formula for research point accumulation will be the same as it is now, except any field multiplier other than 1 will be changed to 1.
Haulie Berry
#2 - 2012-05-19 15:44:10 UTC
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
CCP's plan to sell datacores from FW LP stores disrespects people who have spent years planning, training, and missioning to get standings for maximal research points. It also changes the entire fabric of training and overall game strategy.

...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.





It's an MMO. The first rule is that the rules are going to change. That's one of the bigger aspects of the genre as a whole.

Think of it as internet space Calvinball.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-05-19 16:21:54 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Think of it as internet space Calvinball.



Can i use this as my sig now?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-05-19 16:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Katja Faith
Hmmm... Where to start, where to start...

Quote:
"disrespects"


Over-dramatic much?

Quote:
Say you have 150,000 research points in Amarrian Starship Engineering, you could get 1000 datacores at the current rate.
If you wait until after the change, you will be able to get 1500 datacores, it seems.


Nobody paying attention will wait until after; they'll cash in the RPs, and make iskies from the paranoid and risk-averse. I don't see a problem here. Also the 100k ISK per datacore is fantasy-land. I'd love to only pay 100k for datacores that I consume the most of.

Quote:
...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.


This is CCP's property: they can choose to do whatever they want with Eve Online. People who take issue with that have three options:
1) Quit.
2) Failquit.
3) Design, implement, and market your own MMO with the working principle that you'll never, ever change the game whatsoever in any way that any single person will every consider "Changing the rules." Oh, and good luck with that.

This thread = much ado about nothing. (And yes, I'm that old)
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#5 - 2012-05-19 16:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Quote:
It's an MMO. The first rule is that the rules are going to change. That's one of the bigger aspects of the genre as a whole.

Think of it as internet space Calvinball

I can argue for days on both sides including yours. But don't make the mistake of telling me what to think.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#6 - 2012-05-19 16:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Quote:
Hmmm... Where to start, where to start...


no comment
Dersk
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-19 18:01:38 UTC
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
how much effort


Irrelevant. The developers cannot make a practice of avoiding change in an area where people have put effort into it as they would be left with no room to make change at all. Your comments about disrespect, cheating, and your effort don't communicate a reasoned argument, but a self-centered emotionally driven whine.

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!!! <- I'm actually laughing there.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#8 - 2012-05-19 20:18:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Dersk wrote:
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
how much effort


Irrelevant. The developers cannot make a practice of avoiding change in an area where people have put effort into it as they would be left with no room to make change at all. Your comments about disrespect, cheating, and your effort don't communicate a reasoned argument, but a self-centered emotionally driven whine.

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!!! <- I'm actually laughing there.



no comment
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
#9 - 2012-05-19 20:24:21 UTC
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.


I wonder how Eve would look if it never changed. I didn't play during the first 5 years or so, but I bet it would be very dead without all of the changed (or added for that matter) content. Just learn to adapt to changes, it's what you should expect when playing MMOs.
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#10 - 2012-05-19 20:56:28 UTC
Bluestream3 wrote:
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.


I wonder how Eve would look if it never changed. I didn't play during the first 5 years or so, but I bet it would be very dead without all of the changed (or added for that matter) content. Just learn to adapt to changes, it's what you should expect when playing MMOs.



Lets see few things off my head i heard...

Capital ships in highsec
No wormholes
Hardly any 0.0 space
Quite big number less ships to choose
No invention,no T2 BPO lottery either
...

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-05-19 21:17:55 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEH6fvU8i7o I'll just leve that there.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Haulie Berry
#12 - 2012-05-19 21:23:55 UTC
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
Dersk wrote:
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
how much effort


Irrelevant. The developers cannot make a practice of avoiding change in an area where people have put effort into it as they would be left with no room to make change at all. Your comments about disrespect, cheating, and your effort don't communicate a reasoned argument, but a self-centered emotionally driven whine.

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!!! <- I'm actually laughing there.



My God. The genius. The sheer willpower. The strength of character. I can't believe you're not sitting in a castle somewhere, ruling the world. To think all this time I never knew you existed. Please forgive me, I guess I didn't understand that YOU are the guiding light of the universe, and YOUR ideas are the only ones that matter. Let me wipe this excrement off your hands, so you can bless us all once again.


You don't seem to actually be refuting anything he said, here, and flowery prose is clearly not your forte.
Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#13 - 2012-05-19 21:25:54 UTC
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
Quote:
Hmmm... Where to start, where to start...


Maybe you could give us some more of your awesome, mind-blowing wisdom. Like tell me again how much effort I didn't put into this game to get where I am today. That's a good one.


In one single blow, you've taken your very well thought out and calculated topic of discussion (and yes, I'm being completely serious here, it's well thought out, the math is done, and you are obviously passionate about the topic to go that far with it, and I respect you for it), your reputation overall, and any serious discussion that could be had, and completely trashed it with a garbage comment.

People are going to flame. People are going to troll. People are going to make misplaced comments and spout off at the mouth.

Welcome to forums.

What makes or break your thread is how you react.

_It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. _
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#14 - 2012-05-19 22:26:37 UTC
Bluestream3 wrote:

I wonder how Eve would look if it never changed. I didn't play during the first 5 years or so, but I bet it would be very dead without all of the changed (or added for that matter) content. Just learn to adapt to changes, it's what you should expect when playing MMOs.

Understood. We need some change. Sometimes lots of it.
So what do you think, wait to cash in the Amarrian Starship Engineering research points until the change, and get a ~50% bonus to the number of datacores (there is also the matter of the fee...though I'm not really clear if that fee is for the FW loyalty point store only, or if it now applies to research agent purchases as well)?
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#15 - 2012-05-19 22:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Dare Knight wrote:



People are going to flame. People are going to troll. People are going to make misplaced comments and spout off at the mouth.

Welcome to forums.

What makes or break your thread is how you react.


quite right
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-05-19 23:25:45 UTC
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
My God. The genius. The sheer willpower. The strength of character. I can't believe you're not sitting in a castle somewhere, ruling the world. To think all this time I never knew you existed. Please forgive me, I guess I didn't understand that YOU are the guiding light of the universe, and YOUR ideas are the only ones that matter. Let me wipe this excrement off your hands, so you can bless us all once again.


If you were honestly trying for discussion here, you clearly lost all respect as soon as you started getting insulting and disrespectful. (See what I did there?)
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#17 - 2012-05-20 02:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
no comment.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#18 - 2012-05-20 02:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Haulie Berry wrote:

You don't seem to actually be refuting anything he said, here, and flowery prose is clearly not your forte.


no comment
Dersk
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-05-20 03:25:10 UTC
The question I have is if a Pee-Wee Herman line would increase or decrease the quality of discussion here.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#20 - 2012-05-20 03:57:34 UTC
Maybe this FW LP store datacore sales thing would have looked a little more realistic if the FW LP store was actually purchasing those datacores from the players who are earning research points and redeeming them for datacores. My guess is that opening another datacore faucet is going to tend to flood the bathroom. I hope that does not happen.

Using FW LP to facilitate additional datacores entering the marketplace is akin to the new CCP's McDonalds mentality. The learning skills nerf, now another skill nerf, datacores, are all attacks on long-term strategy. They want everyone killing each other, and they want them killing each other right now. Anything that stands in the way of that message must be squelched, it would seem.

I can argue for the other side too, as I have said. Changes are needed, and change can be exciting. This datacore change should have been all over the eve news, but instead, they hid it in Factional Warfare, which I have cared less about in the past. I had to hear about it from a friend, and purely by chance.

As with anything else, the intellect of Eve players is a bell curve. There is a mob mentality in play. That is why the voice of reason, of long-term wisdom and ideaology is seldom heard, seldom seen, and seldom acted upon. It seems the louder your mouth, the more you get your way.

Maybe I'm an anachronism. It could be. Maybe Eve Online is not part of my future. Time will tell, I guess. I plan to keep training up science skills for mechanical engineering and others to level 5 when possible.

You may understand if you have 2 accounts, and each of your toons has six research agents, most at level 4. You probably know there is still more training and/or missioning to be done in order to maximize your RP/day.

I am getting used to CCP chipping away at the things I love in Eve. It used to be, it was all new and cool to me. The changes they made didn't matter so much... but then I took an arrow in the knee.
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