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New dev blog: With Friends Like These... - New Ally System

First post First post
Author
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#41 - 2012-05-18 20:19:34 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Nice addition!

Now i can wardec A with my main corp B, then offer him my alt corp C as an ally and let A have it against B while my alt corp gets paid for nothing. And if i as much as convince A to "join" C in an all out assault on B and just don't log in or begin shooting A, the LOLz will be epic.

I wonder where do this CCP guys get so much naivety. They spend months building mechanics that are born dead because even a special child could figure how to abuse them in less than 5 minutes, and yet manage to feel proud about it...

I'm pretty sure there will be an in game mercenary/ally feedback system to help prevent this. Obviously, calling in an ally is at your own risk and you should never blindly trust anyone.


Oh, sure, MercAdvisor. Based 100% on ingenuous customer reviews.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#42 - 2012-05-18 20:20:22 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
it's 8:30 on a Friday night, I'm sure more people from my team will post here when they're availableBlink
Edit: nice posted at the same time as SoniClover


Yeah, I always forget how late it is over there. Thanks for the quick responses though! Big smile
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#43 - 2012-05-18 20:20:52 UTC
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
Mechael wrote:
"The only way for a mutual war to end is if one side surrenders."

A little, tiny bit worried about that. What if both sides want to end the war, but neither is willing to surrender to the other?


Ask Israel and Palestine.



lmao good one bro...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-05-18 20:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Planck
btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.

1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking)
2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are repping

I has all the eve inactivity

Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#45 - 2012-05-18 20:22:41 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Oh, sure, MercAdvisor. Based 100% on ingenuous customer reviews.


Just have a link to a merc alliance's yelp page for reviews.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#46 - 2012-05-18 20:23:31 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.

1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking)
2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are aggressing



No, that comes with the crimewatch changes which will be happening towards the end of the summer.
Sheena Tzash
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-05-18 20:23:55 UTC
Its nice to see all these changes going into the war system and I hope the idea behind some of the restrictions is to reduce the amount of pure griefing war decs that are put onto newbie corps and chases away all the new players from the game.

It causes the agressor to think about the cost and retaliation capabilities of their opponent before they put in the dec.

The defender can still go turtle on them and wait it out or with this new system bring in some hired hands which could quite easily cost more to defend yourself than the agressors pay on the dec itself.

Just a thought on ally payment system though - I assume that they are paid as soon as the defender accepts the offer? What happens if I run a one man band and act as an ally, take the money and walk off with it? What happens if my corp does a poor job and don't deserve the money paid for my 'services'?

Maybe the payment system should be changed so that when the war dec ends the defender is abliged to pay for services rendered. If the ally did a good job you could throw in a bonus.

If they sucked you don't pay them at all.

If you want to screw them over you don't pay them either but at least they could dec you back and reclaim their lost earning! :P

Defenders could also provide feedback (yeah, like a ebay seller) to rate them on how well they did so that other defenders can see their ratings and either look for a particular good rated corp for their services or keep away from offers of bad corps.

Yes it could make new merc corps difficult to break into the market but if they reduce their asking price they'll take on a few deals at a loss but build up the required rep to take on higher paying contracts.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#48 - 2012-05-18 20:25:18 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Adriel Malakai wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo
defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint

in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue.


Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen?


We will absolutely be monitoring this closely post-Inferno. We have implemented several metrics that make it easier for us to track what is going on in the war system and we will use the data gathered (plus of course feedback from you guys) to make adjustments to the system in the future, if needed.


people this is discusting he only has 110 likes give this man atleast 5000...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#49 - 2012-05-18 20:27:00 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Adriel Malakai wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo
defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint

in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue.


Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen?


We will absolutely be monitoring this closely post-Inferno. We have implemented several metrics that make it easier for us to track what is going on in the war system and we will use the data gathered (plus of course feedback from you guys) to make adjustments to the system in the future, if needed.


i hope you monitor how many people unsubs after being wardecced for weeks by every last griefer in game, without a chance to avoid nor escape nor win nor do shlt about it.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-05-18 20:28:46 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.

1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking)
2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are aggressing



No, that comes with the crimewatch changes which will be happening towards the end of the summer.


when did you see a date on that? I was under the impression that crimewatch changes were happening with the inferno expansion and cannot find any specifics on luanching at a later date

I has all the eve inactivity

Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#51 - 2012-05-18 20:30:01 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.

1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking)
2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are aggressing



No, that comes with the crimewatch changes which will be happening towards the end of the summer.


when did you see a date on that? I was under the impression that crimewatch changes were happening with the inferno expansion and cannot find any specifics on luanching at a later date


Greyscale mentioned in a post somewhere in GD I thought. I'll poke around and try to find it.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-05-18 20:31:43 UTC
btw on the note of this expansion, corp hopping still going to be a dramatic problem. I say you just bite the bullet and charge ~100-200m to start a corp, along with the changes you have proposed so far.

I has all the eve inactivity

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#53 - 2012-05-18 20:32:53 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Adriel Malakai wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo
defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint

in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue.


Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen?


We will absolutely be monitoring this closely post-Inferno. We have implemented several metrics that make it easier for us to track what is going on in the war system and we will use the data gathered (plus of course feedback from you guys) to make adjustments to the system in the future, if needed.

Great so what you're telling us is that you're going to release obviously incomplete, poorly thought out content and then wait to see how broken it is after you've released it.

Didn't I hear soundwave talking about releasing content when it's finished rather than rushing towards expansion deadlines with unfinished garbage at some point? Oh I guess that was before crucible came out and CCP was still pretending to be apologetic about incarna and hadn't gotten back to the standard practice of releasing unfinished crap.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-05-18 20:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Planck
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.

1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking)
2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are aggressing



No, that comes with the crimewatch changes which will be happening towards the end of the summer.


when did you see a date on that? I was under the impression that crimewatch changes were happening with the inferno expansion and cannot find any specifics on luanching at a later date


Greyscale mentioned in a post somewhere in GD I thought. I'll poke around and try to find it.


ah found it

CCP Masterplan wrote:

I'm glad that this crimewatch work was positively received. The timescale beyond summer isn't firmly fixed yet - we're still planning the release calendar for the next 12 months. It certainly won't be early summer, but I'd hope to be releasing something before the winter.
EXPECTATIONS-MANAGEMENT DISCLAIMER: ALL PLANS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE! I DON'T SET THE SCHEDULE


ShockedWhat?SadCry

I has all the eve inactivity

Wiu Ming
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-05-18 20:41:42 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
And defender have onle [sic] one option and that is to become ISK cow for an "Ally". ...You only want to help griefers and screw other players?


Not necessarily. I'm sure high sec war deccing entities have made a lot of enemies over time. Corps may *want* to combine forces to enable payback. The new ally system lets it happen.

Here's another scenario: a nullsec alliance like TEST decides to dec someone. Don't you think upon hearing of this little gem that Privateers, Moar Tears and every other highsec deccing entity would clamor for the chance to join the fray? Hell, the deccee might find itself offered piles of isk for the privilege of doing just that.

Speaking of which, Devs why does the ally system only have a spot for demanding isk? Can this number be negative? Why can't corps be offered isk for the opportunity to join their war?
Fergall Acheilleus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-05-18 20:44:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Fergall Acheilleus
CCP is trying to reinvent the wheel.


Great job CCP for caving in to only the crybabies in eve.

Eve was great because of the freedom to do whatever you wanted to in game. You are slowly taking that away.

Oh well, I don't blame you. Its not about the game itself, it's whatever yields you the most profits. I would do the same thing.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#57 - 2012-05-18 20:44:38 UTC
Sheena Tzash wrote:
Its nice to see all these changes going into the war system and I hope the idea behind some of the restrictions is to reduce the amount of pure griefing war decs that are put onto newbie corps and chases away all the new players from the game.

It causes the agressor to think about the cost and retaliation capabilities of their opponent before they put in the dec.

The defender can still go turtle on them and wait it out or with this new system bring in some hired hands which could quite easily cost more to defend yourself than the agressors pay on the dec itself.

Just a thought on ally payment system though - I assume that they are paid as soon as the defender accepts the offer? What happens if I run a one man band and act as an ally, take the money and walk off with it? What happens if my corp does a poor job and don't deserve the money paid for my 'services'?

Maybe the payment system should be changed so that when the war dec ends the defender is abliged to pay for services rendered. If the ally did a good job you could throw in a bonus.

If they sucked you don't pay them at all.

If you want to screw them over you don't pay them either but at least they could dec you back and reclaim their lost earning! :P

Defenders could also provide feedback (yeah, like a ebay seller) to rate them on how well they did so that other defenders can see their ratings and either look for a particular good rated corp for their services or keep away from offers of bad corps.

Yes it could make new merc corps difficult to break into the market but if they reduce their asking price they'll take on a few deals at a loss but build up the required rep to take on higher paying contracts.


The payment is all up front. It's a basic one lump some right now, we didn't want to implement a more elaborate payment scheme in the first iteration (like automatic reimbursement fund, etc.) - people can continue to negotiate that informally as they've done in the past. The main thinking here is to allow mercenary corporation to build up reputation over time. The public war history is the first step in that direction, allowing prospective patrons to check out the war history of an offering merc corp. Later on we want to expand the information given here to allow defenders to more easily see the 'worthiness' of a merc corp before deciding whether to hire them. A rating or ranking system of some sorts, maybe in EVE Gate, is also a possibility.
Armed Maniac
Noticeably Insane Miners' League
#58 - 2012-05-18 20:47:33 UTC
If the ally market becomes everyone willing to join at no charge so they can get targets, wouldn't other corps declare war on an alt corp, then use that alt corp to accept as many allies as they wanted targets for?

Pirate corp declares war on alt corp, alt corp accepts 3 ally corps, Pirate corp is now at war with 3 other corps for the cost of 1 war. With the added benefit of them being able to choose which corps they accept the ally contract from.

This also leaves the ally corps with no way to end the war, as long as the pirate corp keeps paying the fee.


Even if the Ally corps charged a fee, the alt corp would only have to pay that once to get stuck in a war they can't get out of.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#59 - 2012-05-18 20:57:09 UTC
Absolutely no gaping holes in this mechanic, no sir, it's totally ready for rollout.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#60 - 2012-05-18 21:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Nice addition!

Now i can wardec A with my main corp B, then offer him my alt corp C as an ally and let A have it against B while my alt corp gets paid for nothing. And if i as much as convince A to "join" C in an all out assault on B and just don't log in or begin shooting A, the LOLz will be epic.

I wonder where do this CCP guys get so much naivety. They spend months building mechanics that are born dead because even a special child could figure how to abuse them in less than 5 minutes, and yet manage to feel proud about it...


The thing is, EVE is a game of alts nowadays. Virtually every area of the sandbox (incursions, FW, hisec wars, etc...) can be exploited. What you just highlighted will be exploited but smart players will adapt. Legitimate vendors will find ways to stand out and develop a solid reputation. However, the ignorant will always be taken for a ride. That will never change

C'est la Eve :)

PS- Same thoughts were going through my head as well. But at the end of the day, it's still hisec wars, so meh

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .