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Heavy's vs Torps and Cruise
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Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#21 - 2012-05-11 08:27:46 UTC
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
Just Alter wrote:
Quote:
My Raven was equipped with the following:

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I


Wat?

What where you doing with that thing?

He was trolling you with a meme thats about 3 years old or so.



Not a troll - actually an improvement on earlier suggestions.
CPT JHawk007
Heavy Metal Task Force
#22 - 2012-05-11 13:38:40 UTC
Boomhaur wrote:
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
Just Alter wrote:
Quote:
My Raven was equipped with the following:

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I


Wat?

What where you doing with that thing?

He was trolling you with a meme thats about 3 years old or so.


NO that's a Templar it's an Ammarian fighter drone used by carriers.

Another meme. Just ignore these things and use the cookie cutter setup, or go back to the drake and train up to T2 missiles and use an AB to get close to the BS's with defender missiles so they don't have time to use them. I think this is what I used to use, tight on fitting so swap parts as needed. A raven will do missions better, but if your low SP I would recommend staying with the drake and making everything T2 first than work on your Raven skills, sounds wierd but bad skills on a Raven = bad ship, where as the drake is more forgiving.

[Drake, LV4 copy 1] 510 dps 2762 volley
Power Diagnostic System II
Shield Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Auto Targeting System I

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x5



Oh i deffinately agree thats why i was saying i was mostly in my drake for most of the 2 yrs on this char and on the 3rd year really worked on Raven have all t2 torps and cruise t2 shielding and almost near 5mil in missile skills.

T2s are suppose to be better than t1s so i worked so hard to get into t2 missiles and still do average volley of near a drake even though the Volleys are 4 to 5ks
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#23 - 2012-05-11 14:53:42 UTC
CPT JHawk007 wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
Here:

6x Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
1x Small Tractor Beam I
Mid Slots:

1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
3x Mission Specific Hardeners
1x Peripheral Weapon Navigation Diameter
Low Slots:

4x Ballistic Control System II
1x Damage Control II
Rig Slots:

3x Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Thats an interesting fit may do how does it do in l4s? average volley?


This is basically how you should fit a raven.
CNR you do the same use faction bcu's painter booster tech 2 rigs
also for easier to tank missions you can drop the DCU for signal amplifier to improve lock range and speed and add more targeting slots.
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-05-13 07:48:23 UTC
Okay some important things. For any PvE ship you want to fit for maximum damage first then worry about your tank, since all missions are ridiculously easy anyways, do it fast!

A raven is actually a pretty horrible mission ship, just easy to use, but if you want it you want it! And since you do want it you have to know the most important thing is 3x Rigor rigs. Without these you will not be able to hit smaller ships for very much damage at all and you will be even slower than slow. Also do not fit torpedoes onto a Raven. The Golem manages to pull it off but the raven is a little sad turtle with Torpedoes.

Really a Tengu is better for any kind of PvE than a Raven and actually leaves you with useful skills/ships for other areas of the game. No, not only is it better for blitzing it is better for any kind of PvE compared to a Raven, or even a CNR. It's speed combined with its ability to do full damage to ships of all sizes excluding elite frigates is what makes it out DPS a Raven.

Anyways! If you want to use a raven just make sure you have 3-4 BCUs and 3 rigor rigs. After that find out what you need in your mids to survive what ever you want to do and thats it. Skills to let you hit smaller and faster ships are also really important.

Ferox #1
CPT JHawk007
Heavy Metal Task Force
#25 - 2012-05-14 20:03:07 UTC
Kietay Ayari wrote:
Okay some important things. For any PvE ship you want to fit for maximum damage first then worry about your tank, since all missions are ridiculously easy anyways, do it fast!

A raven is actually a pretty horrible mission ship, just easy to use, but if you want it you want it! And since you do want it you have to know the most important thing is 3x Rigor rigs. Without these you will not be able to hit smaller ships for very much damage at all and you will be even slower than slow. Also do not fit torpedoes onto a Raven. The Golem manages to pull it off but the raven is a little sad turtle with Torpedoes.

Really a Tengu is better for any kind of PvE than a Raven and actually leaves you with useful skills/ships for other areas of the game. No, not only is it better for blitzing it is better for any kind of PvE compared to a Raven, or even a CNR. It's speed combined with its ability to do full damage to ships of all sizes excluding elite frigates is what makes it out DPS a Raven.

Anyways! If you want to use a raven just make sure you have 3-4 BCUs and 3 rigor rigs. After that find out what you need in your mids to survive what ever you want to do and thats it. Skills to let you hit smaller and faster ships are also really important.


Thanks so much for your imput sorry for not get back to you sooner but had some events to go to such as everyone knows as mothers day.

I agree Tengus are really good as far as heavy missiles doing really well to all ship sizes. I guess after reading your comment which i agree with completely then the Caldari Bs's are not useless but are not very effective as far as from pvp stand point and pve side. When i first came to the game i was Gallente and found a drake pilot and pvped someone and won thats when i had the love for missiles and decided to become caldari little did i know i would be having this much issue as a caldari pilot just hoping this will get better as you increase skills and getting t2 missiles.

The question is am i just kidding myself at this point to continue with Caldari Bs's and up or should i go back and work up my Gallente side as far as i know playing on singularity for while Caldari Bs's Get slaughtered by Gallenge blaster boats such us Vindis, Megas and such. I flew a CNR against megas vindis hyperions and ofcourse other faction bs's it seems caldari Bs's dont cut it in pvp unless your in a blob.

Though Tengus are very nice but they are very EXPENSIVE. Its not like I have Billions laying around to fit these kind of ships.

It seems to me that the Caldari Bs's such as the raven doesnt havnt enough mid slots and not enough cpu to work with i mean i cant run all t2 on raven unless puting 1 Co processor only reason is that X large shield booster eats so much cpu.
Kalli Brixzat
#26 - 2012-05-14 20:51:17 UTC
CPT JHawk007 wrote:


I agree Tengus are really good as far as heavy missiles doing really well to all ship sizes. I guess after reading your comment which i agree with completely then the Caldari Bs's are not useless but are not very effective as far as from pvp stand point and pve side. When i first came to the game i was Gallente and found a drake pilot and pvped someone and won thats when i had the love for missiles and decided to become caldari little did i know i would be having this much issue as a caldari pilot just hoping this will get better as you increase skills and getting t2 missiles.

The question is am i just kidding myself at this point to continue with Caldari Bs's and up or should i go back and work up my Gallente side as far as i know playing on singularity for while Caldari Bs's Get slaughtered by Gallenge blaster boats such us Vindis, Megas and such. I flew a CNR against megas vindis hyperions and ofcourse other faction bs's it seems caldari Bs's dont cut it in pvp unless your in a blob.

Though Tengus are very nice but they are very EXPENSIVE. Its not like I have Billions laying around to fit these kind of ships.

It seems to me that the Caldari Bs's such as the raven doesnt havnt enough mid slots and not enough cpu to work with i mean i cant run all t2 on raven unless puting 1 Co processor only reason is that X large shield booster eats so much cpu.



1. The issue isn't Caldari BS as much as long range missiles not being great in PvP due to travel time.
2. You can effectively buy and fit a Tengu for just as much as the cost of a well-fit CNR. Of course, if you want to **** out your Tengu, it's more.
3. T2/Faction on a regular Raven is overkill. Get a CNR.
4. T2 XLSB no necessary for a Raven or CNR - a faction LSB will be just as, if not more, effective.
CPT JHawk007
Heavy Metal Task Force
#27 - 2012-05-14 21:06:30 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
CPT JHawk007 wrote:


I agree Tengus are really good as far as heavy missiles doing really well to all ship sizes. I guess after reading your comment which i agree with completely then the Caldari Bs's are not useless but are not very effective as far as from pvp stand point and pve side. When i first came to the game i was Gallente and found a drake pilot and pvped someone and won thats when i had the love for missiles and decided to become caldari little did i know i would be having this much issue as a caldari pilot just hoping this will get better as you increase skills and getting t2 missiles.

The question is am i just kidding myself at this point to continue with Caldari Bs's and up or should i go back and work up my Gallente side as far as i know playing on singularity for while Caldari Bs's Get slaughtered by Gallenge blaster boats such us Vindis, Megas and such. I flew a CNR against megas vindis hyperions and ofcourse other faction bs's it seems caldari Bs's dont cut it in pvp unless your in a blob.

Though Tengus are very nice but they are very EXPENSIVE. Its not like I have Billions laying around to fit these kind of ships.

It seems to me that the Caldari Bs's such as the raven doesnt havnt enough mid slots and not enough cpu to work with i mean i cant run all t2 on raven unless puting 1 Co processor only reason is that X large shield booster eats so much cpu.



1. The issue isn't Caldari BS as much as long range missiles not being great in PvP due to travel time.
2. You can effectively buy and fit a Tengu for just as much as the cost of a well-fit CNR. Of course, if you want to **** out your Tengu, it's more.
3. T2/Faction on a regular Raven is overkill. Get a CNR.
4. T2 XLSB no necessary for a Raven or CNR - a faction LSB will be just as, if not more, effective.



You bring a good point might try that as well
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2012-05-16 11:58:37 UTC
Kietay Ayari wrote:
Okay some important things. For any PvE ship you want to fit for maximum damage first then worry about your tank, since all missions are ridiculously easy anyways, do it fast!

A raven is actually a pretty horrible mission ship, just easy to use, but if you want it you want it! And since you do want it you have to know the most important thing is 3x Rigor rigs. Without these you will not be able to hit smaller ships for very much damage at all and you will be even slower than slow. Also do not fit torpedoes onto a Raven. The Golem manages to pull it off but the raven is a little sad turtle with Torpedoes.

Really a Tengu is better for any kind of PvE than a Raven and actually leaves you with useful skills/ships for other areas of the game. No, not only is it better for blitzing it is better for any kind of PvE compared to a Raven, or even a CNR. It's speed combined with its ability to do full damage to ships of all sizes excluding elite frigates is what makes it out DPS a Raven.

Anyways! If you want to use a raven just make sure you have 3-4 BCUs and 3 rigor rigs. After that find out what you need in your mids to survive what ever you want to do and thats it. Skills to let you hit smaller and faster ships are also really important.



Tengus are great, right up to the point where you're shooting rats that have decent Kinetic resist, then their kill speed goes down. A CNR will easily outpace a Tengu in completing missions with lots of BS and missions with EM-weak rats. But the CNR takes more micromanagement, and of course it's far slower for those annoying missions where you have to travel significant distances (I'm looking at you, The Score). But for Sansha Pirate Invasion? Yeah, CNR will do that far more efficiently. So it's not nearly so cut-and-dried as you make it sound.

For both ships, I would recommend a rack of +5% missile hardwirings to get the best out of them. A set of Halos (HG Halos with LG Omega) is a nice complement to the Tengu. The CNR doesn't needs any tanking help, but a Jackal set will reduce irritating NPC ECM jams.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#29 - 2012-05-16 23:07:50 UTC
Implants are unnecessary for either ship, just a nice bonus. Don't get crystals or jackals, use +5s.

A well fitted properly skilled Navy Raven is on par with a Tengu against Kinetic weak (maybe a little better because of drones) and better against other factions, however your mission time can be effected by things like picking up mission items, gate crawling etc that the Tengu has no problems with so overall I'd say they're pretty much equal (with the Tengu being far less skill intensive and thus what people usually choose)

They can both be fit for similar cost as well, massive pimp is hugely unnecessary on both ships, people just like pimping.
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#30 - 2012-05-18 10:55:04 UTC
Scorpion Navy Issue is your friend. For nearly half the cost of the CNR (and less than double the standard raven) you will have a BS with enough mids for tank, AB (in case you want them) and TP which will help a lot against mid and small targets.

I recommend it if you don't want to wait until you have enough money to buy the CNR and want more speed and tank than you have in the standard raven.

Also, the SNI is a sexy ship.
Hans Momaki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-05-18 12:18:50 UTC
Tengu is bad for missions, cause you can use it for 2 types of missions only. Those missions are Kinetic-missions, and travel missions.

So if you ever decide to leave caldari space, you are fu*ked with your tiny little gank-magnet called the tengu. On top of it, a well fitted CNR with drones is having equal damage and near equal damage application against kinetic-weak enemies with just T1 ammo. This makes running missions in a CNR cheaper.


Boz Wel
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2012-05-18 13:06:26 UTC
Hans Momaki wrote:
Tengu is bad for missions, cause you can use it for 2 types of missions only. Those missions are Kinetic-missions, and travel missions.

So if you ever decide to leave caldari space, you are fu*ked with your tiny little gank-magnet called the tengu. On top of it, a well fitted CNR with drones is having equal damage and near equal damage application against kinetic-weak enemies with just T1 ammo. This makes running missions in a CNR cheaper.




Your CNR is also slow to align and slow to travel. In null/low sec hubs, you are much safer in a "gank-magnet" tengu. Also, for dual+ boxing, it's much easier to permarun a tengu than a CNR, and is just less micro in general. If you don't mission in Gallente/Caldari space and if you do mission in high sec and if you are single boxing, sure the CNR is a great option. That doesn't mean the tengu is bad.
CPT JHawk007
Heavy Metal Task Force
#33 - 2012-05-18 13:38:00 UTC
Thanks guys! These are all good inputs and you all have given me some good ideas for my bs's keep up the good work Big smile
CPT JHawk007
Heavy Metal Task Force
#34 - 2012-05-18 15:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: CPT JHawk007
Just to update yall the Rigors on my Raven are working Wonderfully using my Fury Cruise missiles no problem on BS's BC's and Cruisers hitting all around from 1300s to 3600s


15:16:21 Combat Your group of Scourge Fury Cruise Missile hits Core Baron, doing 3691.5 damage. :)
Adeena Torcfist
Right Hand Of The Legion.
Get Off My Lawn
#35 - 2012-05-19 16:00:30 UTC
how is it, that no one in ur corp is offering any help or advice?
CPT JHawk007
Heavy Metal Task Force
#36 - 2012-05-22 14:34:28 UTC
Adeena Torcfist wrote:
how is it, that no one in ur corp is offering any help or advice?


First off im CEO so my members which are mostly family we have yrs of experience and couple older friends dont know what im talking about because they swiched from Caldari lol and the rest of my members are very new so they wouldnt know :P So i searched here for answers and indeed i have found them :)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#37 - 2012-05-22 16:21:45 UTC
CPT JHawk007 wrote:
Adeena Torcfist wrote:
how is it, that no one in ur corp is offering any help or advice?


First off im CEO so my members which are mostly family we have yrs of experience and couple older friends dont know what im talking about because they swiched from Caldari lol and the rest of my members are very new so they wouldnt know :P So i searched here for answers and indeed i have found them :)


Good attitude.

Can I also recommend that you download the ISK

It's not 100% perfect but there's a vast amount of good material in there and it's extremely well presented.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-05-22 21:25:52 UTC
Honestly, your first and main mistake is trying to use a Raven. It's really an upgrade over the drake once you factor in how much harder it is to apply your theoretical DPS and that you have to train all those extra skills. Until you can use the Navy one, there's really not much to be gained there.
CPT JHawk007
Heavy Metal Task Force
#39 - 2012-05-23 12:43:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
CPT JHawk007 wrote:
Adeena Torcfist wrote:
how is it, that no one in ur corp is offering any help or advice?


First off im CEO so my members which are mostly family we have yrs of experience and couple older friends dont know what im talking about because they swiched from Caldari lol and the rest of my members are very new so they wouldnt know :P So i searched here for answers and indeed i have found them :)


Good attitude.

Can I also recommend that you download the ISK

It's not 100% perfect but there's a vast amount of good material in there and it's extremely well presented.


Oo more reading Material i think i got the ISK 3.0 pdf file mostly used it for mining questions and 0.0 content didnt really look at the combat aspect at the time. should check this out and see whats new. :)
CPT JHawk007
Heavy Metal Task Force
#40 - 2012-05-23 13:03:49 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
Honestly, your first and main mistake is trying to use a Raven. It's really an upgrade over the drake once you factor in how much harder it is to apply your theoretical DPS and that you have to train all those extra skills. Until you can use the Navy one, there's really not much to be gained there.


In a way i agree but disagree, Let me start of with the agree part if your a new player and rush off to a Raven it would be pointless to use it in PVE because of the skills required for it to be used properly. In my case i already have the skills for it but the problem i was have was the incosistancy of the damage of either Cruise or Torps i was using So when someone suggested using Rigors my problem Practically disapeared.

Now to the Disagreement Raven is a lot better at mission running than the Drake heres why bigger drone bay and twice amount of damage if ur using T2 Granted it takes longer skill wise then the drake but the drake also takes a while to perfect as well i believe if i remember correctly it took me 2 to 3 months to nearly perfect the skills to fly the Drake properly the reason i say near is because Battlecruiser skill is at 4.

So in comparison Drake can practically tank any mission while with raven you have to micro manage with a 1min cap which im using a XL shield booster i could however use a faction large booster as someone suggested to lower cap but get near as much as XL booster rep. But the damage output of drake and Raven is way off with my drake with full tank it does 2200 Volley while Raven does 3600 Volley only differences is that Drakes damage is more consistent than Raven with out rigors because of transition from Heavy's to Cruise and Torps.
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