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CCP, Get rid of Moon Goo so Goons and other large alliances have to work for their isk!!

Author
Spurty
#61 - 2012-05-16 13:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
No!

But do make it require 8+ people to manage it constantly.

Moon mining is the ULTIMATE bot exercise and doesnt even need bots.

Fix that please CCP. Higher risks not just higher reward, but more effort needed (not less).

Also needing 8+ people in each tower means more chance of random alliance mate #96368 doing something nefarious

That's very much how EVE should be

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2012-05-16 17:38:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
First 0.0 outposts need to be buffed to be physically able to support 0.0 (simply allowing multiple outposts per system would go a long way to achieving this). Only then would it be time to even talk about nerfing hi-sec.

Although I agree that ultimately, player-built outposts should have an absolute efficiency advantage over NPC stations, and NPC stations should be gradiated by sec level.

This is also true, even if every highsec manufacturing slot vanished overnight there simply isn't the capacity available to pick up the slack in nullsec. Ideally, both need to be done at roughly the same time (perhaps a slight overlap to allow nullsec to have their infrastructure in place in preparation). I'd rather see an expansion of the station upgrades system to allow 0.0 entities to vastly increase their industrial capacity by investing in their existing outposts rather than simply spamming multiples of the rather ****** outposts we have at present per system, and altering the ways that outpost upgrades could be attacked would tie into the 'Farms and Fields' ideas that CSM6 talked about.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Doc Severide
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-05-16 18:39:57 UTC
The OP reminds me of real life whiners. They hate to see rich people if they aren't rich too. "See that guy there, he drives a Ferrari. I can't afford one so they should quit making Ferrari's".... Sniff sniff...
Tinnin Sylph
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-05-16 18:42:39 UTC
Tech is not a low effort income you awful, awful people. Taking the space/moons and holding them involves a massive effort from thousands of people in an alliance amounting to a total number of man hours that I can't even be bothered to work out for you terrible pubbies. Just because the very last stage (the logistics of getting the stuff out of the moons and to market) isn't a huge effort doesn't mean the whole process of taking/holding the moons is low effort.

Sweet Jesus, how many times do you insufferable muppets need to have this explained?

Heh.

Hung TuLo
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
#65 - 2012-05-16 18:47:49 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
The OP reminds me of real life whiners. They hate to see rich people if they aren't rich too. "See that guy there, he drives a Ferrari. I can't afford one so they should quit making Ferrari's".... Sniff sniff...


Sheese, I havn't made personal attacks on anyone. Grow up mate. People should comment on the topic, not the person making the topic, or the people commenting on the topic.

If I wanted to know how you felt about me, I would have asked. Really, your comment has no purpose to the topic.

"In space all warriors are cold warriors" ---  General Chang  Star Trek VI

Pres Crendraven
#66 - 2012-05-16 18:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Pres Crendraven
I have been looking at things from a different perspective. Power is going to consolidate around resources but I'm not seeing null as being the center of attention since they nerfed the drones. With proper managemnet T1 or T3 could rival the T2 moon power. While the moons were spread out envisioning wars across null, real potential exists to change the game into a null, wormhole,empire trifecta. It looks like wormholes are consolidating nicely but empire has a long way to go but I think it has the potential. Look at what the drone regions accomplished with t1.

Another path I have never seen explored is adding MORE automation but to t3 and t1 harvesting. Until lately I would have agreed with. This only has a chance if bots and rmt are completely out though. T1 and T3 both need cash cows to recruit and keep corp members and offer percs to alliance corps.

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.

Tinnin Sylph
Perkone
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-05-16 18:53:42 UTC
The fact that the person posting the topic is clearly an idiot who doesn't understand basic mechanics behind the thing he is asking CCP to change seems pretty relevant to this discussion.

Heh.

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#68 - 2012-05-16 18:59:31 UTC
For passive income haters, CCP sure seems to ignore moon goo. However, I read somewhere they are looking to change the system there too.
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#69 - 2012-05-16 18:59:45 UTC
Leave it as it is, but spread the available sources to other outlets.

The problem is not that one OTEC controls all material, but that so few sources are available to contribute. Those sources are controlled at an alliance level leaving many out of the production chain.

The mining buff coming soon(TM) should spread the resources from one to many, which I hope opens up smuggling operations into 0.0 space. Should make for some interesting fun.



Otherwise, what you are asking for is already on the way (sorta).
Hung TuLo
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
#70 - 2012-05-16 19:07:20 UTC
Tinnin Sylph wrote:
The fact that the person posting the topic is clearly an idiot who doesn't understand basic mechanics behind the thing he is asking CCP to change seems pretty relevant to this discussion.



Ah yes, yet another person who cannot discuss the topic. Oh please, yes, please flame me. That comment hurt me so badly.

"In space all warriors are cold warriors" ---  General Chang  Star Trek VI

Tinnin Sylph
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-05-16 19:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinnin Sylph
Hung TuLo wrote:
The Moon GOO needs to go. I think alot of people are tired of the large alliances having so much isk that they don't have to work to get it.


Tinnin Sylph wrote:
Tech is not a low effort income you awful, awful people. Taking the space/moons and holding them involves a massive effort from thousands of people in an alliance amounting to a total number of man hours that I can't even be bothered to work out for you terrible pubbies. Just because the very last stage (the logistics of getting the stuff out of the moons and to market) isn't a huge effort doesn't mean the whole process of taking/holding the moons is low effort.

Sweet Jesus, how many times do you insufferable muppets need to have this explained?


If you look a few points up you'll see that I have pointed out why the whole premise of you post is idiotically wrong, effectively combining discussion of this dumb topic with an indication of why you are a dumb pubbie.

Heh.

Metal Icarus
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#72 - 2012-05-16 19:18:34 UTC
As a person who helps manage 20+ moon mining poses, Op stfu.

Moon mining isn't broken its the distribution of high value moons that is screwing up the whole thing.

we don't make a huge amount of money, but it does fund our corps military. (All CTA's and sanctioned Roams are paid for by the corp) it takes a lot of work, but the benefit really comes from having a lot of moons.

The tech moons are put in space geographically close to each other which is easier to defend than ones spread out to all regions. This tech cartel is a cartel every time someone gets power just because of the moons proximity.

Goon/BoB lemming: "Pleibs"

Your empire will fall just like BoB...

Or BoB will fall again, they just got a new name: Goons.
Pres Crendraven
#73 - 2012-05-16 19:18:58 UTC
How could anybody? What percent of players have any real experience :) How many details are posted? A whole lot has to come together just right. You can't fight ignorance without knowledge. Took months to even realize those skill points were wasted.

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.

Hung TuLo
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
#74 - 2012-05-16 19:27:30 UTC
Tinnin Sylph wrote:
Hung TuLo wrote:
The Moon GOO needs to go. I think alot of people are tired of the large alliances having so much isk that they don't have to work to get it.


Tinnin Sylph wrote:
Tech is not a low effort income you awful, awful people. Taking the space/moons and holding them involves a massive effort from thousands of people in an alliance amounting to a total number of man hours that I can't even be bothered to work out for you terrible pubbies. Just because the very last stage (the logistics of getting the stuff out of the moons and to market) isn't a huge effort doesn't mean the whole process of taking/holding the moons is low effort.

Sweet Jesus, how many times do you insufferable muppets need to have this explained?


If you look a few points up you'll see that I have pointed out why the whole premise of you post is idiotically wrong, effectively combining discussion of this dumb topic with an indication of why you are a dumb pubbie.



Oh, ouch, ya that hurt. Sad and pathetic.

What would you guys do if you didn't have moon goo? just because the have to hold sov doesn't mean that you have so many people in the tech moon system to do it. As others said its quite easy once you have the moon goo process going to take the goo to market. Sell it and instant isk. See when you put a pump on the well, it doesnt take long until the water comes out. Without the pump it takes longer and more work is needed. The Moon goo is the pump. No one really has to work once the pump is installed.

Once the initial investment is made you have free fast flow of isk. Never to be stopped unless CCP does the stopping. As I said CCP won't pull the leash


And the Pump isnt available in High-Sec.

"In space all warriors are cold warriors" ---  General Chang  Star Trek VI

Nastrado
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-05-16 19:57:36 UTC
Sorry we don't have time to properly respond. We are to busy swimming in pools of free isk. Maybe we will get to you after we get done kicking all of these kittens CCP gives to us.
Tinnin Sylph
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-05-16 20:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinnin Sylph
The 'initial investment' is organising 8000+ people into an effective and stable alliance that is powerful enough to take and hold a large percentage of the available tech moons while fending off other alliances who are after the same prize. Just because we have, with great effort over a prolonged period on the part of both our members and leadership, now managed to secure this prize doesn't mean that it's "free isk". It didn't get dropped into our lap by chance, we worked for it.

Now while we did all that, you've been busy sitting in high sec complaining that the mean goonies are getting free isk abloo bloo bloo. That's why we're space rich and you're not. If you'd like to change that I suggest you form up an alliance yourself and come experience how easy it is to run a null sec alliance.

Heh.

Nikodiemus
Geo-Tech Industries
Etsala Legion
#77 - 2012-05-16 20:04:31 UTC
Kriegman wrote:
Hung TuLo wrote:
Seriously though, you folks in Goons.


Think about it, if CCP did get rid of moon goo, what would Goons do? What would the other large alliances do? You guys would be forced to start looking at carebear practices in Null, Evil mining and all of that.


You kidding right? For every PvP alt we have 3 care-bear ratter alts as is. Besides average goon does not get isk directly, it all goes to maintaining SOV and reimbursements which is very nice. The point is even if moon goo were to magically disappear, we will adapt and go on business as usual.


Also goes to the clique at the top. Don't forget.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-05-16 20:07:07 UTC
I've looked at the numbers, and unless things are drastically changed by CCP, producing locally out in 0.0 would be a pipe dream.

According to the bloodtear report, a large grav site (the most profitable site to cycle) contains 2M units of trit. So assuming you could cycle the large grav site once per day, that's 2M units of trit per day per level 3 indy system. The moderate grav site has 10M units of trit. By comparison, a single drake takes 2.6M units of trit. So if you're cycling grav sites, you could produce enough trit for 1-4 battlecruisers a day per system. A large alliance may burn through 14 Drakes a day - not to mention battleships, capital production, other ships, etc.

There's not going to be a significant amount of trit production in 0.0, so the only way to build locally is to import lowends. However, ships and modules usually take up less volume, so it's better to just produce those in empire and ship them out. With mineral compression, you can get away with producing ships locally at slightly less cost and significantly more effort than importing them, but that doesn't work when it comes to producing modules locally (since the modules are what you use for compression, anyway).

Compounding the lack of trit, is the problem of 0.0 outposts. The amount of manufacturing slots in a single empire constellation is staggering, when compared to even an entire 0.0 region. Not only is lack of trit heavy ores crippling 0.0 production, but a lack of manufacturing slots also limits local production. Another factor in this, is that only one outpost can be built per system, so your refinery isn't even in the same system as your manufacturing center, making moving uncompressed minerals even more effort. This further makes producing in empire, and shipping everything out even more attractive.

With the Drone poo gone, people will mine more and export minerals to empire, which is good for pvp. However, this won't bring manufacturing out of empire. The only thing that would work is if the material to make something took up less volume than the finished product, it became feasible somehow to mine 10-20x more trit, dropping the one outpost per system rule, or significantly boosting the outpost upgrades to have 50 slots each.

Let them have their OTEC, they have little else, and we make ISK by selling them their ships and modules.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#79 - 2012-05-16 20:09:21 UTC
I am in favor of Soundwave's presentation from fanfest, bringing some moon goo to planet rings for a new form of mining. I also believe moon goo should deplete before respawning elsewhere.

+ add moon mining to 0.4 plox.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Khadann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-05-16 20:52:57 UTC
Hung TuLo wrote:
The Moon GOO needs to go. I think alot of people are tired of the large alliances having so much isk that they don't have to work to get it. Make the alliances focus on industry in Null. Not just the Moons in Null.

No Moon Goo no super-rich alliance. Unless that is what CCP wants.

Your right CCP it's time for change. Are you willing to take the lead and change the sandbox for the betterment of all in EVE or just the super-rich?

In Eve I am part of the 99%.




In Eve, i am part of the 70%

30% of players are currently in large alliances, right?What?