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When a WH static opens?

Author
shadowgirl9
Death And ATO
#1 - 2012-05-15 22:01:27 UTC
ok in the last few days i have people keep saying i am wrong when it comes to spawning a static WH,

i have always belived that a static WH when collpases will instantly respawn, a few people have now been trying to tell me that the WH will not be initiated/ opened untill it is warped to, now i know the sites work like that is this the same for static WH's or are they just talking crap?
Immortis Vexx
Onyx Moon Industries
#2 - 2012-05-15 22:09:52 UTC
shadowgirl9 wrote:
ok in the last few days i have people keep saying i am wrong when it comes to spawning a static WH,

i have always belived that a static WH when collpases will instantly respawn, a few people have now been trying to tell me that the WH will not be initiated/ opened untill it is warped to, now i know the sites work like that is this the same for static WH's or are they just talking crap?



This seems to be one of those Schrodinger's cat sorta things. If you can scan it, you can warp to it. Thus, if you can scan it, the hole has to exist SOMEWHERE. A hole can just as easily be scanned from either side. You can have people come into your WH from a hole that you didn't scan so they CAN'T solely exist on one side or the other until opened. Right? Perhaps I am misunderstanding this whole thing....

Also, I don't have 100% proof that the sites don't "open" unless you warp to them but I am fairly certain that is false. We have had stuff despawn that we haven't touched in the same amount of time that "opened" sites have despawned in.

Vexx
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#3 - 2012-05-15 22:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Static wormholes that have been scanned down but never warped to are NOT scanable on the other end - they ONLY link to a destination system when initiated warp to.

If you don't scan your static the sig for it will remain there for several days before despawning and the sig will not expire in the time a spawned wormhole normally expires in once spawned.
shadowgirl9
Death And ATO
#4 - 2012-05-15 22:17:51 UTC
i can kind of understand that however the last guy i been specking to is saying it will not spawn in anther WH unless u warp to your static, his evidence for this was because the corp that was in their would have never have taken an hour to scan down their wh.

now warped to or not as soon as it spawns (warped to or not) it sould instantly connext to anther wh and not only spawn on the one side?

as for the sites i have had sites in my wh now for over 10 days so that is a gd support that they don't but i am sure their are other things that may effect them
Immortis Vexx
Onyx Moon Industries
#5 - 2012-05-15 22:20:59 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Static wormholes that have been scanned down but never warped to are NOT scanable on the other end - they ONLY link to a destination system when initiated warp to.

If you don't scan your static the sig for it will remain there for several days before despawning and the sig will not expire in the time a spawned wormhole normally expires in once spawned.



I do not dis-believe you, I would just like to see where you got this information from. I'm sure that there are other mechanics of this same sort that I would like to read about.

Thanks,

Vexx
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#6 - 2012-05-15 22:23:26 UTC
The most compelling evidence is the fact that if you scan the static before downtime but don't warp to it, then warp to it after downtime the sig in the destination system will have a post downtime ID.

We've been collapsing our old static before running sites for ~2 years and never once had any unexpected visitors from that source during that time while we've had plenty from other people who spawn an incoming link to us, I think its highly unlikely we'd have not had visitors from our "unspawned" static in all that time if it did actually spawn on the k162 side.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#7 - 2012-05-15 23:01:25 UTC
Rroff wrote:
The most compelling evidence is the fact that if you scan the static before downtime but don't warp to it, then warp to it after downtime the sig in the destination system will have a post downtime ID.

We've been collapsing our old static before running sites for ~2 years and never once had any unexpected visitors from that source during that time while we've had plenty from other people who spawn an incoming link to us, I think its highly unlikely we'd have not had visitors from our "unspawned" static in all that time if it did actually spawn on the k162 side.


Yes personally I think the sig is definitely a compelling marker. Especially after the patch that caused them to not be completely random anymore.

Plus the fact of time. I have had a static that I did not warp to last upwards of a week. If in fact it was "active" it would have had the normal 24 hour timer.

And last, I have experienced the same sort of quiet, where I had zero visitors for upwards of a week when I had kept the static inactive and never got any other random WH's
Devai Starchild
Starchild Engineering
#8 - 2012-05-16 01:06:39 UTC
Once you collapse your static, the sig for the new static will generally respawn in the next 10 minutes.

Until you warp to that sig, though, the corresponding K162 exit for your static will not spawn anywhere else.
Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-05-16 02:18:51 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Static wormholes that have been scanned down but never warped to are NOT scanable on the other end - they ONLY link to a destination system when initiated warp to.

If you don't scan your static the sig for it will remain there for several days before despawning and the sig will not expire in the time a spawned wormhole normally expires in once spawned.



^this is correct.

can be tested by probing out a new static and not warping to it, come back in longer than 24 hours and it will still be in the same place.
note that you may need to try it a few times since there's no way to stop someone else connecting to your system and warping to it.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#10 - 2012-05-16 04:20:14 UTC
Oh look, it's this thread again.

http://www.wormholes.info

Zarere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-05-16 09:36:41 UTC
Immortis Vexx wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Static wormholes that have been scanned down but never warped to are NOT scanable on the other end - they ONLY link to a destination system when initiated warp to.

If you don't scan your static the sig for it will remain there for several days before despawning and the sig will not expire in the time a spawned wormhole normally expires in once spawned.



I do not dis-believe you, I would just like to see where you got this information from. I'm sure that there are other mechanics of this same sort that I would like to read about.

Thanks,

Vexx



I can confirm this, we found out the hard way.

You wont find a developer post though, as they wont tell us stuff like this.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#12 - 2012-05-16 09:53:47 UTC
I think the reason for so many just don't get this is that it does not seem to make sense from a logic point of view. Why should stuff only spawn on one side and not both?

From a developer p.o.w it makes totally sense. W-space was envisioned as thousands of mostly empty systems that linked to each other with dynamic spawning gates, aka "wormholes". You normally don't want to spend [server-] resources on stuff that never is going to be used. Thats probably why the "warp to spawn" mechanic exists in the first place. Without it, I would have to spawn sites for rejected missions all over the place...

So why spend resources and time on statically linking thousands of systems via WHs that none ever going to use? Especially when you already have all this fancy mechanic to initialize and "spawn" things when people warp to the grid where it's placed?

As long as none "needs" a WH it can just stay as a coordinate in space (for days, as people discovered), the actual connection don't need to be established and a minimal of resources gets wasted.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Dorn Val
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-05-16 11:00:39 UTC
My only .02: If you scan down your system on a regular basis, and there are no K162s (meaning someone has opened a WH to your system), then you can leave your static unopened and no one is going to come through it from the other side. However there's no guaranty that someone didn't come into your system from another WH, scanned down your system while you and your copr mates were off line, and opened your static for you...

IMHO it's always best to go ahead and spawn your statics so that you have control over them.

Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...

Coolsmoke
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-05-16 12:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Coolsmoke
Bleugh double post
Coolsmoke
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-05-16 12:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Coolsmoke
This has done to death in multiple threads ever since Apocrypha, but CCP never caved in to constant pleading for clarification.

So nobody knows for sure, simply because you can't prove it 100% and the devs aren't telling.

However, it is worth pointing out that:

There is a difference between a spawned entity (complex, radar/mag/wormhole) and a scanned signal. Each is a discrete item. A signal merely points to a place in space saying "Here Be Dragons". An entity is something that actually exisists at that spot when you get there.

When it spawns is open for argument, although there's fairly good evidence that it happens upon warp initiation (evidence being Sleeper site escalation by a cap ship). But that may only be applicable to certain high-end Sleeper sites. Wormholes are after all a very different sort of entity (having locations in two systems for starters).

The general consenus is that a static wormhole spawns, along with its other side, when a ship initiates warp to it. However, there are many tales of w-dwellers who swear blind they've been visited despite constant scanning for K162's and not opening their own statics. Perhaps a static wormhole spawns when it is scanned to 100%...or 50%..

Of course now, with wormhole jump data removed, it's simply impossible to tell.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#16 - 2012-05-16 15:30:06 UTC
Coolsmoke wrote:
However, there are many tales of w-dwellers who swear blind they've been visited despite constant scanning for K162's and not opening their own statics. Perhaps a static wormhole spawns when it is scanned to 100%...or 50%..

No w-dweller can be sure of that. Just because you have not seen anyone on scan don't mean you don't have guests in your system. Just because you have not seen any K162s spawn, does not mean you are alone in the system. Just because you have not opened up your static don't mean it's still not opened.

I have the feeling that a lot of those tales are generated by pilots that just failed to see all the possibilities.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#17 - 2012-05-16 17:38:56 UTC
Back when CCP allowed API jump queries about w-space systems, the stats also showed that there were no jumps while the statics were closed.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
#18 - 2012-05-16 20:01:03 UTC
Honestly, never leave it to chance. I always assume some other corps scan alt has warped to it already. Lol

No trolling please

Frothgar
Moosearmy
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#19 - 2012-05-16 22:30:14 UTC
In 2 years I've never seen something come through a static we've probed but didn't warp to.

On the other hand, I've had enough new sigs pop up and spawn small armies that I'm convinced the best characteristic of a good WH resident is a mild to moderate case of paranoia.
Post Ironic
The Eyes of The Cat
#20 - 2012-05-17 08:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Post Ironic
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