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Anti-Archon Cheap Solution.
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Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2012-05-15 08:40:56 UTC
You know those unused EWAR frigates?

Try Kitsune x2 + Keres. Use the following setup:

Lows: Signal Distortion Amplifier x2
Meds: 1MN AB II + White Noise Generator x 3, 86km optimal + 53 (around 140km total) falloff +Sebo II (targeting range script)
Highs - Whatever you want

Rigs: Small Ionic Field Projector x2 (total of 127km targeting range)

Tactic: Stay far behind your fleet and jam the crap of the archon with two kitsunes. Both Kitsunes should orbit each other with AB on.

However, sometimes these jams are going to fail, so when Archon reawakens, we need to make his life living hell and delay his ability to target for as long as possible. Welcome the Keres, of which you only need one.

Keres: Lows: Damage Control II +Overdrive x2
Meds: 1MN AB II . 3 Remote sensor damps (45 + 90 optimal) 1 sebo II (targeting range script)
Highs: Whatever you want

Rigs: Small ionic field projector x2 (total of 118km targeting range).

Tactics: Stay far behind your fleet and use scan resolution dampening scripts. Orbit one of the kitsunes with your AB.

DONT USE A MWD. You move over 1000 m/s with the AB's on both EWAR vessels. An MWD would only bloom your sig radius for anti-frig snipers.

Congratulations you just shut down an archon for 1/100th the cost at the expense of using 2 more men.

Winmatar > Everything else
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#2 - 2012-05-15 08:57:33 UTC
um so is the arcon alone? or will his fleet quikly kill 3 friggs?
what of arcons drones?
if he gos in to triage you cant use Ewar on him and then his drones......

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2012-05-15 09:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Saladinae
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
um so is the arcon alone? or will his fleet quikly kill 3 friggs?
what of arcons drones?
if he gos in to triage you cant use Ewar on him and then his drones......


If the archon goes triage he gets primaried and dies, EWAR frigates not needed.

It's going to take forever for him to lock a frigate with 3 sensor dampeners on him if he is not in siege mode. Once he finally gets a lock on you, you warp to tac and bounce back. Now he has to lock you all over again. Since you're in a highly mobile frigate, this bouncing is pretty quick.

Obviously this archon is not alone. This is to shut him down if he doesn't triage.

"if he gos in to triage you cant use Ewar on him and then his drones......" Unless something radically changed in EvE that I was unaware of, carrier can't use their drones (or is it only fighter drones?) while in triage.

Winmatar > Everything else
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#4 - 2012-05-15 09:33:10 UTC
Kitsune bonused jammers are still not that strong vs. a carrier, and thats only 3 "shakes" apeace. Have you tryed it with just 2 and had success or is this raw theory. ( it's RADAR Sensor Strength is base 72 yo)
I fly a lot of ECM boats and have very hi skills for ECM, its hard for me with a felc/scop and mostly correct jammers to lock out a carrier.

What scenario is this were the engagement is so that with 3 ships with a combined EHP of under 5k is also on field with enough fire power that a triaged archon gets primed and dies that quick? But also one were 3 ships that will have to bounce back and forth to a safe will impact the fight?
I'm confused because if you have the fire power to kill one in triage so fast it can't do that then why do you need this tactic at all?

Why do the kitsunes need to be there at all? Wouldn't just 2-4 Keres with scripts work? Why not ECM drones? is the assumption that the archon is fit with EM/faction/officer smart bomb?

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2012-05-15 09:37:31 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
enough fire power that a triaged archon gets primed and dies that quick?

If he dies before he can leave triage and get remote reps it's considered "quick."

Winmatar > Everything else
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#6 - 2012-05-15 10:27:54 UTC
Saladinae wrote:
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
enough fire power that a triaged archon gets primed and dies that quick?

If he dies before he can leave triage and get remote reps it's considered "quick."



So a fight under 5 min's with 1 or more archon(s) and friend(s) were you can kill it either

A) through its local reps well Triaged, if not burn its slave driven buffer down. It doesn't get to use drones, its friend(s) are under 2X reps so staying on field still putting out DPS vs. 2 kitsunes and a keres

B) were you can keep 2 kitsunes and a keres on field against its drones ether directly or assigned well under pressure from friend(s) well removing the rest of archons fleet and/ archon its self


That's rather narrow. and at likely over 75 mill its border line not cheep. Not trying to bash but it's not for armour BS+guardian fleet, its not for shield alpha fleet, and its not for a fleet of under 15. So whats it for were 75 mill on 3 guys is both enough power, cheapest solution and effective?

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#7 - 2012-05-15 11:58:29 UTC
Saladinae wrote:

If the archon goes triage he gets primaried and dies, EWAR frigates not needed.



Take a look at the R&K video describing how they use paired Triage Archons to tank ~5 Supercarriers. Shocked

The Archon that's out of Triage isn't targeting anyone, it's just staying alive while the triage one is repping. When the triaged one gets primaried, it refits to resists and burst tanks to coast out, letting the former primary refit to properly triage and rep once it comes out. This dance yo-yo's back and forth until the Supers decide they're tired of banging their heads against the carriers, and wouldn't be particularly inconvenienced by your plan.

I don't know who uses Solo, non-Triage Archons, anyway. In a fleet big enough that there's a use for non-triage Archons, this wastes manpower that's better spent on more central fleet responsibilities (i.e. if you have such a numerical advantage in pilots that spending 3 to neutralize 1 is not a horrible trade, then specialized tactics probably aren't necessary to achieve victory).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-05-15 16:08:17 UTC
Even if this situation existed (which it doesn't) it would be cheaper and more effective to use blackbirds because they have more range and an extra mid and rig slot, even if they lack the individual jammer strength.

And I say "more effective" rather than "effective" because you'll still get butchered by their support fleet.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2012-05-15 21:01:08 UTC
Have a look at the sensor strength on an archon, then tell me you can perma-jam one with two kitsunes....
Dors Venabily
United Starbase Systems
#10 - 2012-05-15 22:17:49 UTC
@ the OP

Isn't it that RvB does not allow ECM and as a result you post this theory craft?

No it is not going to work.
Saladinae
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2012-05-15 22:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Saladinae
Dors Venabily wrote:
@ the OP

Isn't it that RvB does not allow ECM and as a result you post this theory craft?

No it is not going to work.

Almost everyone in RvB is an alt fool, you log on for action between null sec fleet battles. They are more fun then low sec and null sec roams.

You don't need to perma jam the archon either, because the Keres makes his "retargeting" take an eternity, by the time he retargets he'll get jammed again. Also the archon has base 72 Radar points. Two Kitsunes loaded with Radar jammers (white noise) + a keres can really make his life hell.

If he goes triage mode then the situation changes.

EDIT:
Also I never said this is a perfect solution, but for under 75 million you can really screw any ship with this little squadron, including non-triaged carriers.

Winmatar > Everything else
Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-15 23:49:38 UTC
I thought the 'solution' for any capital was neuts
Sup B1tches
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-05-16 03:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Sup B1tches
Elsa Nietchize wrote:
I thought the 'solution' for any capital was neuts


Even against an Archon, this (only real) option is still hard to do.

Any half decent archon pilot is gonna be in a fleet and have numerous Sebo's, sig amps, ECCM and sensor backup arrays in the corp hangar to swap in to counter any other type of e-war.

Really the only other e-war type that can't be counted by an Archon is TP's lol

Even dreads would have a hard time killing carriers (as many have seen in the R&K vids), either through solid tanking and RR or speed tanking to get under a dreads guns
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#14 - 2012-05-16 03:07:34 UTC
Sup B1tches wrote:

Even dreads would have a hard time killing carriers (as many have seen in the R&K vids), either through solid tanking and RR or speed tanking to get under a dreads guns



Carrier ... Speed Tank ... Under their Guns ... Carrier


The mental image makes me giggle.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Sup B1tches
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-05-16 04:34:30 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Sup B1tches wrote:

Even dreads would have a hard time killing carriers (as many have seen in the R&K vids), either through solid tanking and RR or speed tanking to get under a dreads guns



Carrier ... Speed Tank ... Under their Guns ... Carrier


The mental image makes me giggle.


Don't knock it till you have tried it...
Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-05-16 04:47:18 UTC
Saladinae wrote:


Congratulations you just shut down an archon for 1/100th the cost at the expense of using 2 more men.


You're silly. That is all.
Sturmwolke
#17 - 2012-05-16 06:57:21 UTC
Archons carry light drones too you know (set on agressive) - for pesky frigates.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#18 - 2012-05-16 08:16:03 UTC
Sup B1tches wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Sup B1tches wrote:

Even dreads would have a hard time killing carriers (as many have seen in the R&K vids), either through solid tanking and RR or speed tanking to get under a dreads guns



Carrier ... Speed Tank ... Under their Guns ... Carrier


The mental image makes me giggle.


Don't knock it till you have tried it...


I'm not knocking it. I know it works and understand how it works. It's just that the idea of a Carrier weighing 1 Billion KG and traveling at a jaw dropping 100m/s being able to speed tank anything is a funny mental picture.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Sup B1tches
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-05-16 08:26:41 UTC
^^ yeah it is funny, especially when one archon is speed tanking 4 PL dreads in siege haha
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#20 - 2012-05-16 08:34:15 UTC
Sup B1tches wrote:
^^ yeah it is funny, especially when one archon is speed tanking 4 PL dreads in siege haha


Just wait until the Tracking Dread gains more acceptance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2ti9DFeRMI

CCP Accidentally the Tracking Dread. Much Cheaper than the Tracking Titan.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
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