Market Discussions

Would like to ask if I am the only one getting the feeling this forum topic is getting rather filled with this type of post these days..

Would it be worth considering asking ccp to create a new forum under the market place called public offerings, and have it somehow linked from in here as a sticky/shortcut?

With current subscription feature and eve gate, it would not really be a problem for relevant parties to stay informed.

I just personally find it demotivating to see this forum flood with loans and what not. I would prefer a better balance between the market and the discussion aspect. Currently we are weighing a bit heavy on the market and sliding on the discussion.

On a side note, would it not be useful to have a sticky specifically for the wiki and some guiding on how to, so we might get some more and better content cross linked between here and the wiki?

Seems to me this forum is getting vacated and people shift to other sources because of "noise" and lack of engagement?!

The lack of moderation and more self-moderation is really making the MD something of an eyesore..

I am quite sure there would be plenty to discuss.. Also there are new players coming to EVE afaik..

This forum has a tendency to not be very inviting to these players. The flooding IPOs is not helping make this a social , discussing and engaging forum..

Sadly these days even the scc-lounge ingame tends to have some of this attitude more then before..

I wont cry doom and gloom, but its a bad symptom of where the game is trending.

As you mention the isk faucets are flowing, and imho to the wrong people. Seems to me EVE is more and more becoming about blowing up more and bigger space ships and not about digging into the potential and complexity of the game.

I personally believe a lot of this boils down to long ignoring the arguments coming from the players represented in the MD; and catering to the more casual gameplay. The latest big hand out shift of power to null sec without any clear balancing compensation to empire is another of these bad directions..

The Avatar team started working on a new inventory UI instead of getting WiS off the ground.. all in all seem like EVE is shifting into something different. Might not be bad, but its very different, from the original vision..

there are only three types of thread:

(1) IPO/bond/loan
(2) the latest bubble/manipulation attempt
(3) poor rehashes of discussions we already had 2007-2009

the loan threads are at least occasionally amusing, the other types are usually just frustrating.

I don't see an advantage in this forum becoming like S&I where they start a new thread on the same three topics every 2-4 weeks.

People have to realize that any idea they have about the market is probably not new and has most likely been discussed before.
If it has been discussed before then build on the prior discussion and link the old threads (with a short summary for each) in your post.
If it hasn't been discussed before your idea is probably too stupid to be considered and you should do everyone a favor by running it past 2-3 people in-game before posting a thread about it.

Do your own research before wasting our time.

I'm not sure what motivates the recent influx of loan requests - there has hardly been a worse time for uncollaterlized loan requests by unknown faces.

Splitting the forum falls into category (3) by the way and the most recent discussion of that topic has been very recent (when we migrated to the new forums). Shame on you, Caleb.

The MD forums have always been like this to one extent or the other.

I have been reading the MD forums for years, I hardly ever post and maybe that is a bad thing. On the other hand I also dont flood the forum with pointless threads. When I have a goal to achieve I try to leverage from MD, it actually makes the game more interesting.

While there have been many scams over the years MD has also produced some of the best market players the game has ever seen. Many of these have been funded via IPO/Bond etc.

That being said it is the very people that MD helped achieve fame and fortune that are so cynical and elitist and that is why many people including me dont bother to post. The post by Vera proves my point.

It has long been a trend that people like her with sour attitudes and elitist view points are usually the ones first to post. It is therefore not surprising that new players or even existing players shy away from MD, and as a consequence MD content lacks dearly for it.

Honestly even the C&P forums have had better content lately.

Behold the famed and pecunious Vera Algaert!

empires tremble whenever I speak and markets panic wherever I move.

(all thanks to the badposters on MD)

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Maybe you like to have at least one thread per week about margin trading, maybe you like to read offerings by people who don't even know how to spell "Hexxx" (when was the last time you saw someone use the template linked in the stickies? even that is apparently too much :effort: when you only want a quick 5-30b ISK injection), maybe you enjoy the n+1st discussion on banking, insurance, futures, ... each of which seems to have less content than the one before, ... but I don't.

I think that doing your own research before posting is a matter of basic courtesy and I think that "standing on the shoulders of giants" instead of poorly reinventing the wheel (because geniuses don't need eve-search) is the only way to progress.

Many people seem to start threads on the assumption that their time is worth more than the time of their readers.
I have no love for such arrogant pricks.

Ooops this has all gotten a little angry :o)

On the repetitiveness of posts, meh, it's human nature to be lazy. As lazy is a quality I find frequently in myself I find it hard to criticise others for. So long as I spend more time answering repetitive questions than complaining about repetitive questions then my blood pressure remains at safe levels.

And the particular topic of forum splitting, whilst it has come up before, deserves a fresh airing from time to time because the landscape changes from time to time. Personally I'm still of the opinion that a split is unnecessary and unbeneficial but I have on occasion been known to be wrong.

Besides, even the repetitive questions wax and wane. It's been ages since I've seen a good "I bought a freighter - what do I do now?" post :o)

(1) I don't need a loan
(2) I don't have enough ISK to play that game
(3) I might be interested in that!

As I see it simple noob questions will often lead to new questions and at some point information will be presented that even the old players didn't know about.

The do your own research does putt away many players that ever tried here. The How can I make easy money are probably post that contain the most troll replays, but are most likely to be read by the mayoralty of new players. I doubt any beginner would try his hands at VVs voodo Market Wall of Text, which is rly nice to read, but makes your head hurt.

I think these replies sort of proves my point, or at least my personal sentiment..

I would much rather read a noob post asking well formulated questions. I dont mean some lame "Give all tricks NAO PLOX" crap.. The attitude of the current MD is disheartening at best. In stead I see endless faceless unknowns asking for loans, or expansions of old and semi old MDers.

Regarding the ask questions thread.. I have been around this forum a while; and I refuse to use that.. It may be wrong of me to disregard this rule, but I hate a 2000 replies question post. Its like being semi forced to read transcripts from 5 years of meetings of some board of directors. I would much rather answer a new post and when its answered let it flood into oblivion. It seems so much more like actual human contact.

I think that is my main question.. What happened to the more social and group oriented postings.. It seems to me like the cohesion, if there ever was any, have resided a lot. Maybe it is the almost 8 years without any added features or attention from ccp. Every time I, or someone else, brings up attention to some issues it gets shot down with some disgruntled argument from tradition or rather despair.

Sure the wiki would be useful, but I personally dont bother. There have been relevant services like the lounge, signatures, and legit trading running for more than 4-5 years, and it cant even be honered with a sticky. From a forum perspective I find that as proof that this forum is not getting much attention from ccp moderators. If any only code of conduct policing.

Sure the choice of discontinuing the ISD volunteer project can have its benefits, but it sure also had some bad consequences.

This is also why I have thrown out the idea that forums needed some sort of feature for self moderation options, since the alternative is what we have today.

On a last answer to the "Do your research" comment, that always gets thrown at people in here, as if its some mantra. Why would you expect people to look for a map if there are people on the street you can ask?

Agreed.



Noooooo! Try it, for me :o) You don't need to read the whole damn thing, just scan the last couple of posts. Lately half of the responses have been me or Shar; and I get half the answers wrong :o) And forget the fluffy warm altruistic feeling, do it for the contacts :o) I've invested in at least one player whom I made first contact with in the newbie answers thread - it's such a great gauge of people if you can catch them at their unguarded fresh-out-the-wrapper newbiness.



You may very well be on to something with the inertia and resistance to change. With the greatest of respect, I'd possibly counter that natural human reaction with another - nostalgia? Were things really that rosy in the olden days? I remember when I started the MD vibe was all "MD Elite this, MD Elite that" - and at times it was a pretty nauseous environment; vibes wax and wane and we've got a current glut of IPOs after a mild drought.




Agreed, very very much agreed. For now, the block feature works wonders.

The whole point of a "knowledge community" is that the membership represent a current and distilled collection of past experiences and discussions. If MD was just the same basic topics cycling through with old members passing on knowledge to new, then it's working as intended imo.

I think the real issue is with the "give me some spacebux, bros" subcategory more than the general category of loan threads. However, because the entire process is informal and player-driven, the subcategory is the inevitable product of the main category. Fortunately, my impression is that the whole process is slowly dying, so I don't see much need for a structural change to the forums.

The ultimate problem for long term MD contributors is that there just isn't that much to really talk about. I love it when somebody comes here with something new or innovative, like some of the recent goonswarm financial terrorism stuff, but this is pretty few and far between. I may be a pessimist, but I just don't think there is or ever will be enough subject matter to really create a fully engaging community around; and I think MD is fine as a place that you visit on the side in combination with your other Eve interests. If all you do in Eve is through the MD subforum, I think you're going to have a pretty limited experience, and that isn't going to change any time soon.