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Angel ratter wanted, advice appreciated
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Bamfordi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-04-17 16:09:33 UTC
Ok so I've ended up in some nice angel space, hooray \o/. however the legion i was previously using for ratting isnt very efficient at all for ratting vs. angels even when fit with HAMs (17km range and average dps make the fact it has incredible resists vs angels pretty useless)
I can fly all amarr sub cap ship and most caldari with the support skills and laser/missile skills to boot. I would like your input on what alternatives are out there for me. I have considered the nighthawk (seems to suffer from bad base resists to angel rats), tengu (30days training subs to level 5 :( ), archon (for anomolies with explosive fighters- intel is pretty good round where i rat). I realise that the minmatar ships and machariel are probably the best suited to killing these guys but i dont want to train a whole new race/weaponry, i also mainly run the plexes and only do sanctums/havens when i cant find a good plex so perhaps thats leaning toward the tengu. any advice is appreciated, to me its all just a bit of a headache finding out what is best
Orlacc
#2 - 2012-04-17 16:32:07 UTC
CNR would be good if you have the skills.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-04-17 16:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
If you have the ISK to blow, a Tengu or some form of shield tanked long range battleship (Raven, CNR, Rokh, Maelstrom) would work well. Nighthawk would also work. If you're on a budget and have a friend, get a Sacrilege to tank the rats, while a friend in a Thrasher or Hurricane fit for max-DPS blitzes everything. If you're on a budget and have no friends, deal with the low damage of Sacrilege/Legion, or get a Drake and deal with its issues.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Bamfordi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-04-17 16:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Bamfordi
I'm not too fussed about isk as long as its reasonable for the task i.e i'll buy a tengu and faction fit it if its a big step up from what i got atm. I looked into a nighthawk because I was under the impression it had a really good tank and its dps is similar to tengu however when fitted for passive tank its several times worse than a drake! Of course this was on eft so i havent actually used anything in practice but i was under the impression the NH had a really good tank fitted in this way, maybe this is just vs guristas i dno.
Skorpynekomimi
#5 - 2012-04-17 16:47:54 UTC
Mael. Minmatar shields are very good against angels, and Fusion ammo hits their weaknesses nicely.
Generally, just take a L4 mission fit, tweak it a little, and you're set.

Maybe a Vargur if you're rich; it saves looting and salvaging in something else.

Economic PVP
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#6 - 2012-04-17 16:55:33 UTC
Bamfordi wrote:
I'm not too fussed about isk as long as its reasonable for the task i.e i'll buy a tengu and faction fit it if its a big step up from what i got atm. I looked into a nighthawk because was under the impression it had a really good tank however when fitted for passive tank its several times worse than a drake! Of course this was on eft so i havent actually used anything in practice but i was under the impression the NH had a really good tank, maybe this is just vs guristas i dno.

Not even looking at the NH, I can tell you that it is going to have a better "default" tank against Guristas. It's a T2 Caldari combat ship, which means its resists will be Thermal > Kinetic > Explosive > EM in shields. As Angels deal mainly Exp/Kin damage, it will require a bit of tweaking (explosive hardener) to make it effective at tanking that. It's still going to be a trade-off between tank and damage, though, especially if passive tanked. EFT it up and see how it looks?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Bamfordi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-04-17 16:58:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Bamfordi
minmatar ships are well over a month of training to do it well (t2 large guns) and i'm not really wanting to do that. I'm interested in the most efficient ship for my skills (amarr/caldari) for running angel plexes and sanctums.

i have tweaked the nh but i got 320 defence efficiency against my angel profile with the specific hardeners, and im not sure that is enough for the sanctums or higher end plexes. a tengu is a step up but is that worth the extra isk? heres the fit i made:

[Nighthawk, angel]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN Afterburner II
Photon Scattering Field II
Explosion Dampening Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Warrior II x5
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-04-17 17:04:28 UTC
Well, T2 large guns aren't mandatory, they just help.

And I think that Tengu might be your best bet. Keep in mind that you don't have to take every SS skill to 5 right away (or even ever). Getting them to 4 will have you running at ~90% efficiency and only takes a week. As to taking things to 5, the offensive one is the only one that helps no matter what; there's no need to train defensive SS 5 if your tank is fine with 4, etc.
Bamfordi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-04-17 17:26:41 UTC
ok i shall train for a tengu i think since all the other options seems significantly worse for qhat i wana do.does the CNR compare?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#10 - 2012-04-18 03:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Bamfordi wrote:
Fit


Why are you putting an EM hardener on against Angels. I tank heavy DPS Angel missions (e.g. AE Bonus Room) just fine with Exp + Invuln. Never tried in a higher end plex, but the Nighthawk has ample tank against Angels.

PS - with that said, the Tengu is better. Much better. The Nighthawk just compares favorably at the price.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#11 - 2012-04-18 07:11:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Crellion
This should be par for the course.... 882 dps of pure explosive goodness... no doubt can be tweaked a bit more if needed...


[Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Target Painter II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Valkyrie II x5
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2012-04-18 08:42:32 UTC
Bamfordi wrote:
ok i shall train for a tengu i think since all the other options seems significantly worse for qhat i wana do.does the CNR compare?


As long as you're retraining for an expensive ship, then a Machariel is easily the best for angel anoms.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#13 - 2012-04-18 09:19:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Bamfordi wrote:
ok i shall train for a tengu i think since all the other options seems significantly worse for qhat i wana do.does the CNR compare?


As long as you're retraining for an expensive ship, then a Machariel is easily the best for angel anoms.


Same fitting as CNR posted above ... a bit better tank ... some 40-50% more dps at 4kms a wee bit more dps up to 50-60kms less dps outside that... whatever...


[Machariel, New Setup 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Shield Boost Amplifier II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Core Defence Operational Solidifier I


Berserker II x4
Osvaldr Adridian
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-04-18 11:07:57 UTC
Sleipnir Cool

http://i.imgur.com/wGQin.jpg
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#15 - 2012-04-18 12:54:09 UTC
The good ship 'Friendship' works a treat in a situation like this! :D
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#16 - 2012-04-18 14:17:48 UTC
Mach is best, if you want to stick to Caldari CNR will get you the most bang for your buck, here's what I use:

[Raven Navy Issue, PvE]

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Auto Targeting System I

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


Hammerhead II x5

A little pricey but all the pimp is in the rigs, if you want you can downgrade to t1 in which case I'd go for 3 rigors. The CN BCUs and DG booster is actually required to fit everything and its tight on cpu so no space for a tractor though extra targets is useful.
Jewel Noret
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-05-15 06:46:00 UTC
How are your drone skills? I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Gila, or a passive shield tanked Ishtar. Both have phenomenal passive shield tanks vs. angels, low sig radius, and decent dps. Neither requires training a new weapon tree. Both are (somewhat) reasonably priced, and don't require expensive pimped fits to be do good. Also, you save the expense/hassle of ammo, and if you do need to gtfo, you can do so much more quickly than in a BS.
Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#18 - 2012-05-15 08:40:33 UTC
Gorki Andropov wrote:
The good ship 'Friendship' works a treat in a situation like this! :D



Stop spamming this...

How will it work? Let sb else do the ratting and get the ISK from him, I guess?



Op has Amarr and Caldari trained and clearly stated, he doesn't want to train Minmatar.

Tengu and NH are only average, because of the kinetic bonus. A Raven or CNR will be best, because you have the full dmg for explo missiles.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#19 - 2012-05-15 18:00:54 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Bamfordi wrote:
Fit


Why are you putting an EM hardener on against Angels. I tank heavy DPS Angel missions (e.g. AE Bonus Room) just fine with Exp + Invuln. Never tried in a higher end plex, but the Nighthawk has ample tank against Angels.

PS - with that said, the Tengu is better. Much better. The Nighthawk just compares favorably at the price.


Different Angel BSes do different Damage types. The highest bounty Battleships do either EM or Thermal damage. When CCP buffed the anoms, they added a crapload of the highest bounty Battleships. Angels in Anoms now deal primarily EM and Thermal damage.


Machariel is the way to go. Before that, a CNR and a Maelstrom are probably around equal in efficiency, depending on skills.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon