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Should Dreads be able to Tackle Supercaps
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Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-05-14 00:33:58 UTC
Yes

or

No

Explain why for either choice.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-05-14 00:37:17 UTC
Dreads are DPS, not tackle. So, no, dreads shouldn't be tackling supers.

If you can't bring a HIC along too, you're flying with a bad fleet anyways.
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-05-14 00:42:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Archimedes Eratosthenes
mxzf wrote:
Dreads are DPS, not tackle. So, no, dreads shouldn't be tackling supers.


I guess we should remove dps from inties and drams and remove all turret hardpoints from ewar boats.

Also make it so any ship with bonuses to damage cannot fit tackle mods


see what I did there
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-05-14 00:50:36 UTC
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Dreads are DPS, not tackle. So, no, dreads shouldn't be tackling supers.


I guess we should remove dps from inties and drams and remove all turret hardpoints from ewar boats.

Also make it so any ship with bonuses to damage cannot fit tackle mods


see what I did there


Yes we do. You took a rational argument and took it to its extreme.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2012-05-14 00:52:29 UTC
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Dreads are DPS, not tackle. So, no, dreads shouldn't be tackling supers.


I guess we should remove dps from inties and drams and remove all turret hardpoints from ewar boats.

Also make it so any ship with bonuses to damage cannot fit tackle mods


see what I did there


Yes, you proved yourself to be an idiot.

Tackling supers requires specialist ships. Dreads are not that specialist ship. I'd much rather see a capital class tackler than a dread with a super point.
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-05-14 01:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Archimedes Eratosthenes
Danika Princip wrote:

I'd much rather see a capital class tackler than a dread with a super point.


This then. What kind of tank would you propose for it? Would it have significant dps? Should it be able to receive remote reps while in tackle mode?

How would you design such a ship?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2012-05-14 01:21:34 UTC
Danika didn't say he wanted a capital class tackler. Just that that would be better than randomly letting dreads tackle supers. We really don't need one at all, the super tackling situation is already covered.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#8 - 2012-05-14 01:54:47 UTC
It would bring back Dread blobbing if that was ever something that happened in EVE. If it's a lone titan, the HIC is more threat to it than a single dread with tackle. A Titan or a Bomber fit super carrier could make short work of a Dread, even two. A HIC would be free to orbit until downtime, the Titan won't kill it. If the Super didn't aggro, it still has the only real defence it ever had. Enough EHP to logoffski.

Titans and Super Carriers are structure bashers. They can kill your I-Hub or TCU or such very fast and a tackle dread won't make any difference if the situation is to that level. I don't see how a tackle dread would influence it. Knowing CCP the way we do, a tackle module for a dread would likely incur a .2 tracking modifier or something so inobody would use it anyway.
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#9 - 2012-05-14 03:06:37 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Dreads are DPS, not tackle. So, no, dreads shouldn't be tackling supers.


I guess we should remove dps from inties and drams and remove all turret hardpoints from ewar boats.

Also make it so any ship with bonuses to damage cannot fit tackle mods


see what I did there


Yes, you proved yourself to be an idiot.

Tackling supers requires specialist ships. Dreads are not that specialist ship. I'd much rather see a capital class tackler than a dread with a super point.



this basically. Dreads have a specialy, kill structures.


Dictors and hictors in place for this specialist role. Now would a bs equivalnet clase be out of the question....depends. Cap level, nah. Mainly because if the goal is to stem the tide of the big rigs, the solution should not be moar big rigs lol. We tried bring 6 caps/super to counter the enemy bringing 5. Can see where that got the game lol.


Well that and who would actually fly these. If your dic/hic/dread hybrid was on the battel field....it probably would be counter bubbled/pointed. Unlike a hictor who could if lucky gtfo when the cavalry arrives in a large enough force to make retreat the better option, that pointed dread is stuck and waiting his loss mail. Hictor may get his lm too no doubt, but unless a bling fit it won't be no 1 billion isk km lol.

Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-05-14 03:28:46 UTC
Well, I guess it's a bad idea by the response. I was just curious.

Well I was also thinking, there are tier 3 BC's that fit Large turrets, could their be a specialist battleship that fits XL turrets? It would have the tank of a normal battleship and the hull would cost the same as a normal battleship, simply the turrets and ammo would be the most expensive part of the ship. It would give smaller corps and alliances a method of killing supers without bringing dreads. The question is whether or not dreads would have to be buffed after the implementation of such a ship class.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#11 - 2012-05-14 04:47:56 UTC
geez just ******* remove siegue modules D:
L0rdF1end
Tactical Grace.
Vanguard.
#12 - 2012-05-14 11:46:06 UTC
No, Dreads should not be able to tackle supers and titans, that's not their purpose.

Titans were recently nerfed to make them lesseffective against sub caps.
qq, What's a Dreads capability now with the tracking Nerf removed, can they hit subcaps for reasonable damage while in triage?
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-05-14 15:14:01 UTC
Black ops
New Role -> Jumbo sized Recon
Fits Anti-capital EWAR and Capital tackling bonuses (like a HIC on steroids)
New ship, fills two roles (hic still tackles)

But whatever, to late now that CCP nerfed titan tracking because some Butthurt Oops Joe Chumps couldn't bother to get out of their sub capital fleets and cried how OP titan guns were since its obvious that a capital if fit right is like adding tank mods to your ship (<--Oh snap! Hulk reference!). Hell, since most people have Battleship and maybe 5 the dreads should of been the new blob ship instead of some stupid crappy very niche structure basher role that 300 other dudes in battleships can easily accomplish.
Quade Warren
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-05-14 15:58:52 UTC
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:
Well, I guess it's a bad idea by the response. I was just curious.

Well I was also thinking, there are tier 3 BC's that fit Large turrets, could their be a specialist battleship that fits XL turrets? It would have the tank of a normal battleship and the hull would cost the same as a normal battleship, simply the turrets and ammo would be the most expensive part of the ship. It would give smaller corps and alliances a method of killing supers without bringing dreads. The question is whether or not dreads would have to be buffed after the implementation of such a ship class.


On a serious note, this would phase out dreadnoughts. It's so much cheaper to field 10-15 battleships like you described than it is to field a comparable amount of dreads. Granted, they won't have the Siege module, but what difference does it make? Battleship pilots are a dime a dozen and building a BS is so much easier than a Dread.

I had trouble writing this response because of a severe case of the giggles. Can you imagine a Maelstrom with the ability to mount 6-8 XL Arty's? You wouldn't even need Gyrostabs... LMAO. Oh god... I'm not laughing at your suggestion, just the sheer amount of terror it would inspire in so many blobs. There would have to be a redesign in fleet targeting just to redistribute the amount of outgoing DPS!
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-05-14 17:42:47 UTC
L0rdF1end wrote:
qq, What's a Dreads capability now with the tracking Nerf removed, can they hit subcaps for reasonable damage while in triage?


They were able to do so before, they remain able to do so. The only "nerf" to dreads was their use out of siege, mostly for WH PvE.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#16 - 2012-05-14 18:09:28 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Danika didn't say he wanted a capital class tackler. Just that that would be better than randomly letting dreads tackle supers. We really don't need one at all, the super tackling situation is already covered.

Actually CCP did say a while back they were unhappy with the (relative) fragility of HICs in super-capital/titan fleet fights, and they proposed a super-capital tackling module that could only be fitted on other super capitals.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it myself, I do like the idea of more supers going boom, but it also reinforces the idea of the counter to a super-capital blob being a bigger super-capital blob. I've been in fleets that have tried holding down supers though, and it is a bit of a joke unless you have an enormous blob.

However I think we can all agree dreads with points is an absolutely terrible idea.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#17 - 2012-05-14 18:43:12 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Danika didn't say he wanted a capital class tackler. Just that that would be better than randomly letting dreads tackle supers. We really don't need one at all, the super tackling situation is already covered.

Actually CCP did say a while back they were unhappy with the (relative) fragility of HICs in super-capital/titan fleet fights, and they proposed a super-capital tackling module that could only be fitted on other super capitals.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it myself, I do like the idea of more supers going boom, but it also reinforces the idea of the counter to a super-capital blob being a bigger super-capital blob. I've been in fleets that have tried holding down supers though, and it is a bit of a joke unless you have an enormous blob.

However I think we can all agree dreads with points is an absolutely terrible idea.

Why?

Not adding the feature to the current dreadnaught, but a BS or capital sized tackler does fit into the line with supercaps.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-05-14 18:46:59 UTC
Quade Warren wrote:
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:
Well, I guess it's a bad idea by the response. I was just curious.

Well I was also thinking, there are tier 3 BC's that fit Large turrets, could their be a specialist battleship that fits XL turrets? It would have the tank of a normal battleship and the hull would cost the same as a normal battleship, simply the turrets and ammo would be the most expensive part of the ship. It would give smaller corps and alliances a method of killing supers without bringing dreads. The question is whether or not dreads would have to be buffed after the implementation of such a ship class.


On a serious note, this would phase out dreadnoughts. It's so much cheaper to field 10-15 battleships like you described than it is to field a comparable amount of dreads. Granted, they won't have the Siege module, but what difference does it make? Battleship pilots are a dime a dozen and building a BS is so much easier than a Dread.

I had trouble writing this response because of a severe case of the giggles. Can you imagine a Maelstrom with the ability to mount 6-8 XL Arty's? You wouldn't even need Gyrostabs... LMAO. Oh god... I'm not laughing at your suggestion, just the sheer amount of terror it would inspire in so many blobs. There would have to be a redesign in fleet targeting just to redistribute the amount of outgoing DPS!


I would imagine it putting out 1/3 the dps of dread and to be terribad against subcaps, only if you're standing still would it hit you for full damage. You could give them a tracking penalty or reduce the tracking of XL guns in general and give dreads a tracking buff instead.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-05-14 18:47:18 UTC
Personally, I think the best thing would be if ewar frigates bypassed the ewar immunity. While it would suck about hictors, The problem is a focused ewar hictor cannot receive remote reps still and dies. Maybe focus script should be allowed rr?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#20 - 2012-05-14 19:19:02 UTC
t2 dreads - yes.

Capital interdictors... lock down supercap jumpdrive systems. Give them special capital e-war mods to tackle super wardrives.

Will force players to counter super cap blobs with t2 cap blobs that are still vulnerable to sub cap warfare.

Everyone wins.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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