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POS Setups for C3

Author
Devai Starchild
Starchild Engineering
#1 - 2012-05-10 01:04:33 UTC
Current corpmate and I are, I think, overthinking our POS setup. So in order to clear up our confusion.

1. Would deathstar or dickstar be the most advantageous for a C3 hole?
2. What's the preferred tower for each? Amarr seemed the best for deathstar, Caldari for dickstar.
3. Any example setups for each tailored to a wormhole?

Thanks
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-10 02:32:18 UTC
To be honest, for anything C4 or below I would use a dickstar. This is because unless they build capships in your WH, they can't get capships in. And lots of ECM makes shooting a POS excessively painful. That being said, I prefer amarr towers for the PG available, even when setting up a dickstar. The reason is that more PG means more guns to scare off the sentry domi fleets. You can put an amarr large tower up with 80 ECM, 1 ship hanger, 1 X-Large ship assembly array, and about 20ish guns or so (about 2k dps). The few times that someone tried attacking they just gave up and left... usually having to leave 1-2 ships behind to die in a ball of fire...

Now, if you go with a caldari tower, you get bonuses towards ECM... but you also have problems with having enough PG to do anything with it. Caldari towers are great for research POS's or for doing reactions... but not so great for having defenses. That is why I don't like them.

-Arazel
Bernie Nator
BO-LD Tournament Team
Lollipops.
#3 - 2012-05-10 02:34:56 UTC
Usually if you're in c3 and below, dickstar is the way to go, mostly because of mass limits and the like. That doesn't mean shirk on the guns though, it just means that you should have enough modules to make hitting your tower very annoying. If you don't, well, you can just kiss the tower goodbye. Caldari dickstars usually manage a goodly number of ECM modules, but you should never ever use torp or cruise batteries on it. You can try, but it won't end well.

For a more in depth guide, you can find one right here.

Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-05-10 02:45:32 UTC
Amarr tower, dickstar fit.
Put as much ECM on it as will fit, some tackle, a couple neuts and a few token guns.
Trading a third of the ECM for damps is also good.
Most people won't go near it with a barge pole.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Bernie Nator
BO-LD Tournament Team
Lollipops.
#5 - 2012-05-10 03:03:21 UTC
Well, yu still have to make sure the pos will actually shoot people that it doesn't like. Or the FC will notice "Hey, no one is getting shot. AL HANDS, ASSAULT THE TOWER LIKE A FAT KIDS ASSAULTS CHOCOLATE."
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#6 - 2012-05-10 03:03:56 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Trading a third of the ECM for damps is also good.


I've never understood the point of this. We've killed towers that were fit with nothing but damps, and it didn't slow us down none.

Generally, if someone is going to bash your POS, they're going to do it with a close-range, high-DPS fleet anyway (such as Ravens or Abaddons). They're just going to warp to zero on the damps and incap them from close range.

The only time the damps would make a difference is when the POS has a fair number of supporting guns (or a defensive fleet) and there are logistics to take out.

http://www.wormholes.info

Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-05-10 04:32:36 UTC
damps also increase locktime... damps + ECM means that if you are damped and become not ECMed, then its still going to take you forever and a day to lock again. I'm personally not too sure I would rather have 60 ECM and 20 damps over 80 ECM though...

-Arazel
Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-05-10 04:58:12 UTC
Nathan Jameson wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Trading a third of the ECM for damps is also good.


I've never understood the point of this. We've killed towers that were fit with nothing but damps, and it didn't slow us down none.

Generally, if someone is going to bash your POS, they're going to do it with a close-range, high-DPS fleet anyway (such as Ravens or Abaddons). They're just going to warp to zero on the damps and incap them from close range.

The only time the damps would make a difference is when the POS has a fair number of supporting guns (or a defensive fleet) and there are logistics to take out.


you can't just have damps but damps + ECM works well.
means it takes forever to relock stuff which causes issues with cap and logi chains ect, as well as just relocking the POS.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Frau Leinsmarch
Mimics
#9 - 2012-05-10 07:54:33 UTC
Bernie Nator wrote:
Well, yu still have to make sure the pos will actually shoot people that it doesn't like. Or the FC will notice "Hey, no one is getting shot. AL HANDS, ASSAULT THE TOWER LIKE A FAT KIDS ASSAULTS CHOCOLATE."



I think the guns add little to the tower defense, when you look at just how many ECM you are missing out on per guns its pritty striking. Never underestimate the annoyance factor of a dickstar.
Bernie Nator
BO-LD Tournament Team
Lollipops.
#10 - 2012-05-10 09:56:17 UTC
Frau Leinsmarch wrote:
Bernie Nator wrote:
Well, yu still have to make sure the pos will actually shoot people that it doesn't like. Or the FC will notice "Hey, no one is getting shot. AL HANDS, ASSAULT THE TOWER LIKE A FAT KIDS ASSAULTS CHOCOLATE."



I think the guns add little to the tower defense, when you look at just how many ECM you are missing out on per guns its pritty striking. Never underestimate the annoyance factor of a dickstar.

Ah, my mistake, allow me to clarify. I meant that no matter what defences you have on your pos, you still have to set the standings so the pos will defend itself instead of just sitting there allowing attackers to pound the tower with no teal fear of retaliation. I can vouch first hand that dickstars are incredibly annoying to bash, but there are a few ways around it.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-05-10 13:46:01 UTC
Frau Leinsmarch wrote:
Bernie Nator wrote:
Well, yu still have to make sure the pos will actually shoot people that it doesn't like. Or the FC will notice "Hey, no one is getting shot. AL HANDS, ASSAULT THE TOWER LIKE A FAT KIDS ASSAULTS CHOCOLATE."



I think the guns add little to the tower defense, when you look at just how many ECM you are missing out on per guns its pritty striking. Never underestimate the annoyance factor of a dickstar.


Except of course that if you have only ECM and no guns, then I will go ahead and bring a few domi's/Ishtars etc., deploy drones, and just let them do the work. If the POS has guns however, I have to have enough tank to hold out against the guns while the drones do the heavy lifting. It isn't too hard to get a domi up to about 1k DPS local tank (especially against 2 damage types, like if your POS only has lasers or only has blasters), but once you get to about 2k dps, that is too much for a local tank to tank. There is also the problem that ECM uses CPU... and once you have a POS reinforced, they all turn off. And then you have to worry about them turning back on once you come out of reinforced and/or they can go ahead and incap all of your ECM while its useless.

-Arazel
Devai Starchild
Starchild Engineering
#12 - 2012-05-11 23:56:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Devai Starchild
Is a POS setup very flexible at all?

For example:

Amarr Control Tower - C3
50/43/43/43 resists
12 of each ECM
2 warps
2 scrams
2 webs
2 neuts
6 small beams
4 medium beams

This does not include backup modules.

Is this setup weak/strong in any way? Could it be improved? Would it be a sufficient deterrent you think?
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#13 - 2012-05-12 01:13:22 UTC
Yes, it will deter anyone who doesn't really, really want you dead.

.

Devai Starchild
Starchild Engineering
#14 - 2012-05-13 15:14:48 UTC
When going with an Amarr tower, how big of a worry is it that the lasers will be resistance tanked? Is it worth switching to a Caldari tower for that reason?
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#15 - 2012-05-13 16:18:06 UTC
Devai Starchild wrote:
When going with an Amarr tower, how big of a worry is it that the lasers will be resistance tanked? Is it worth switching to a Caldari tower for that reason?


Caldari towers really don't let you fit enough defense to be used as a system anchor tower. Use them as additional towers to run reactions, etc. but make sure you have a porcupine to fall back on.

My alliance loves Minmatar towers for use in C5s (large guns + neuts to combat caps), but I personally prefer Amarr towers for C4 and below. Put three lines of defenses:

* A full set of ECM (+neut, scram, web) that uses up all your CPU/PG. Have these on as a first line of defense.
* A full set of guns (med/small) that uses up all your CPU/PG. If your attackers forget to incap your offline guns, you can still turn all these on during or after RF. Many attackers forget this.
* A full set of resists (21 total) that uses up all your CPU/PG. Worst case scenario, if all your outside defenses are gone, you can still boost your shields to 82-84% resists across the board. With a factional tower, that easily equals 267k HP, not including recharge--enough time to call mercs or make the attackers leave from sheer annoyance.

http://www.wormholes.info

seany1212
Drunkendis Order
#16 - 2012-05-13 16:32:34 UTC
Best defence you can have for your tower is POS gunners, even dickstars can go down without sustaining losses when facing a tower that auto aggresses.
Marsan
#17 - 2012-05-13 16:43:32 UTC
Also don't group ecm or they'll use bombs.....

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Bernie Nator
BO-LD Tournament Team
Lollipops.
#18 - 2012-05-13 16:51:52 UTC
Marsan wrote:
Also don't group ecm or they'll use bombs.....

Don't group modules PERIOD. Sure, it makes putting ammo in easier, but a smartbombing battleship or bombers can ruin those modules no problem.
Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad
#19 - 2012-05-14 01:25:20 UTC
Ive never set up a PoS before but cant you just slap a ton of guns on it. To the point where it will do ridiculious amounts of dps like 4-6k. Basically making it near impossible to evict you out of the WH
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#20 - 2012-05-14 03:48:44 UTC
Unimaginative Guy wrote:
Ive never set up a PoS before but cant you just slap a ton of guns on it. To the point where it will do ridiculious amounts of dps like 4-6k. Basically making it near impossible to evict you out of the WH


Thinking like that is what let us remove 8 towers in your alliance's capital with little trouble. (zing!)

DPS alone is actually a very poor strategy for defense, particularly if the offense can field half a dozen or more logistics. We lost one ship to POS guns during the whole campaign, and that was because the pilot fell asleep and wandered outside of rep range.

http://www.wormholes.info