These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Light Carriers
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-05-12 08:33:46 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Its like talking to a wall with you...

Okay. I'll post a thread tomorrow asking for a frigate that can use battleship guns and covert cloaks.

Its a cool idea I think and it'd be fun to have.


lol... WOW....terrible terrible attempt.

Those exist...they're called stealth bombers.

lol...see...It sounded like a cool idea, and poof, there it is....
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#102 - 2012-05-12 08:35:05 UTC  |  Edited by: XXSketchxx
what role does the drake fill? cheap damage at long range, shield tanking ship; can also be used for close brawler engagements

What role does the raven fill? meh, long range damage ship; needs work IMO

Megathron? brawler, awesome damage, with microjumpdrives could open up a whole new doctrine

Hyperion? needs work but does great damage; local tank bonus is kind of stupid

Dominix? great drone boat, can use highs as utilities, i.e. neuts or RR

Wait, how about the Abaddon? amazing tank and great damage; stay tuned for a new doctrine forming around this beast

Caracal? long range, cheap anti frigate boat with AML

Harbinger? I don't know much about this ship, admittedly

Uhh, maybe Maelstrom? literally an entire doctrine around this ship right now, called alphafleet...high alpha damage at range

would you like a lesson on any other ships?
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#103 - 2012-05-12 08:35:33 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

lol... WOW....terrible terrible attempt.

Those exist...they're called stealth bombers.

lol...see...It sounded like a cool idea, and poof, there it is....


it was a joke bro

notice they fill a role
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#104 - 2012-05-12 08:37:35 UTC
And a really important role I might add. Stealth bombers can literally turn the tide of a battle.

Again, they have a role.

Answer my question: what role does the proposed ship fill that is currently missing in eve?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-05-12 08:45:59 UTC
what role does the drake fill? cheap damage at long range, shield tanking ship; can also be used for close brawler engagements - Not a role, it's a design

What role does the raven fill? meh, long range damage ship; needs work IMO - no role, and does need work

Megathron? brawler, awesome damage, with microjumpdrives could open up a whole new doctrine - again, not a role

Hyperion? needs work but does great damage; local tank bonus is kind of stupid - not a role

Dominix? great drone boat, can use highs as utilities, i.e. neuts or RR - not a role (also, you just explained the mini carrier design we're talking about, only the subject design has more drone focus....Weird)

Wait, how about the Abaddon? amazing tank and great damage; stay tuned for a new doctrine forming around this beast
 - also not a role

Caracal? long range, cheap anti frigate boat with AML - Ehh, anti-frig is a role, but since frigs can take out other frigs, not a needed role

Harbinger? I don't know much about this ship, admittedly - It's basically just another ship with a design that doesn't fill a specific or needed role

Uhh, maybe Maelstrom? literally an entire doctrine around this ship right now, called alphafleet...high alpha damage at range - Sniper boat is a weak attempt at a role, but i'll be nice and consider it a role.. However, not a needed role...

Quote:
would you like a lesson on any other ships?


It also stated the entire list of t1 ships, faction, and pirate ships.

Sure, I wouldn't mind a lesson on ships that weren't designed to fill a specific role. Last time I checked, CCP had stated that t1 ships were designed not to fill a specific role and to be more versatile, while t2 ships were designed to fill a specific role.

So, what role does this ship design fill? Perhaps a t1 role?
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#106 - 2012-05-12 08:51:47 UTC
:psyduck:
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#107 - 2012-05-12 08:51:59 UTC
You literally just don't get it.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-05-12 08:52:39 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
And a really important role I might add. Stealth bombers can literally turn the tide of a battle.

Again, they have a role.

Answer my question: what role does the proposed ship fill that is currently missing in eve?


Agreed, bombers to fill a very valid role. They're one of the best ships to use to crash null sec gate camps, besides hot dropping on them.

However, along the lines of the last part of my former statement, they're a t2 ship, which are designed to fill specific roles. T1's aren't.

So, this mini carrier ship suggestion would fit well as a t1 ship.

If you went with my suggestion of giving it

5 high slots
+1 drone contol unit per lvl
able to fit triage with large bonuses to remote rep amount
command bonuses

This allows this ship to fit 3 roles.

The dominix style t1 drone boat, only more drone focused, high sec POS and/or close range heavy immobile logistics, or a heavy tank command ship(limited to on grid bonuses)
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#109 - 2012-05-12 08:54:41 UTC
Ship "designs" as you put it push them into certain roles. You don't see people using a sacrilege as a sniping ship do you?

Yes, T2 ships are the "specialized" role ships. But that doesn't mean other ships don't fit roles within the game based on their "designs." Thats what the different ship bonuses do. They push ships toward various roles that we as players come up with based on these designs.

Now tell me, what "design" does this proposed ship fill?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-05-12 08:55:31 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
You literally just don't get it.



Lol, is this all the argument you have left?

What do I not get?

Do I not get that CCP designed Eve off the cool and fun factor?

Do I not get that many ships have been implemented cause they'd be fun or cool?

Do I not get that there are and has always been ships in Eve that don't fill roles?

Do I not get that certain ships in Eve fill roles that aren't needed?

Do I not get that t1 ships are the exact description of what ships that don't fill specific roles are?



Or, is it that I don't get that YOU don't want this ship so WE shouldn't want it either?
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#111 - 2012-05-12 08:55:47 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:


The dominix style t1 drone boat, only more drone focused, high sec POS and/or close range heavy immobile logistics, or a heavy tank command ship(limited to on grid bonuses)


The problem with this, is that you are essentially combining various roles that already exist into one ship.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#112 - 2012-05-12 08:56:25 UTC
You know you're being more of a troll than I am right?

You've literally become what you dislike. How's it feel?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-05-12 08:59:10 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Ship "designs" as you put it push them into certain roles. You don't see people using a sacrilege as a sniping ship do you?

Yes, T2 ships are the "specialized" role ships. But that doesn't mean other ships don't fit roles within the game based on their "designs." Thats what the different ship bonuses do. They push ships toward various roles that we as players come up with based on these designs.

Now tell me, what "design" does this proposed ship fill?



T1 ships don't fill certain roles, they're specifically designed not to fill a specific role.

The different ships bonuses are designed as fun and cool factor, but are also part of balancing a racial aspects, such as bonuses to target painters, neuts, webs, or jams.

The design it fills is almost the same as the design you gave for the dominix, only more drone focused, like I said.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#114 - 2012-05-12 09:02:33 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

T1 ships don't fill certain roles, they're specifically designed not to fill a specific role.

The different ships bonuses are designed as fun and cool factor, but are also part of balancing a racial aspects, such as bonuses to target painters, neuts, webs, or jams.

The design it fills is almost the same as the design you gave for the dominix, only more drone focused, like I said.


They fill certain roles when put in combat. CCP balances their designs based on what roles they might fill. Destroyers are T1 and I'm pretty sure they are designed with bonuses to make them anti-frigate, which is a role, is it not? The griffin has ECM bonuses and is thus an ecm boat; pretty sure ECM ship is a role, is it not?

The problem with the proposed ship is that its trying to fill a hole that doesn't exist.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-05-12 09:02:40 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
You know you're being more of a troll than I am right?

You've literally become what you dislike. How's it feel?


No, a troll comes in and post without supplying any argument... They just post to either disagree, or for the sheer annoyance it gives other people.

I have not trolled. I have not only supplied to the argument, but have given existing, credible, and factual evidence to why it is possible for this ship to exist.

You have simply said it can't exist because it doesn't need to exist.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#116 - 2012-05-12 09:06:39 UTC
Precisely.

Others have as well. Go back and look through the thread. Multiple people have said "what role does this ship fill?"

And the question has yet to be answered.

Randomly adding ships "for fun" is a horrible idea. Citation: titans.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#117 - 2012-05-12 09:08:13 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:


They fill certain roles when put in combat. CCP balances their designs based on what roles they might fill. Destroyers are T1 and I'm pretty sure they are designed with bonuses to make them anti-frigate, which is a role, is it not? The griffin has ECM bonuses and is thus an ecm boat; pretty sure ECM ship is a role, is it not?

The problem with the proposed ship is that its trying to fill a hole that doesn't exist.


Again, you're suggesting I look at ships that have been given a relative role that isn't a needed role. Frigs can kill frigs, cruisers can kill frigs, bs's can kill frigs, drones can kill frigs, so why did I need a destroyer to kill frigs? Cause it's cool?


Ecm is not a needed role either. It's there for the "cool" and/or "fun" factor.



Other classes designed to fill holes that didn't exist
Marauders
mining barges
exhumers
black ops
titans
carriers
super carriers
etc. etc.

I keep saying this because it's true.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#118 - 2012-05-12 09:08:34 UTC
If you can tell me a viable role that this ship would fill that is otherwise missing in the game and would not imbalance anything in the game or lead to abuse because of its abilities, I would gladly support it.
Xhaiden Ora
Doomheim
#119 - 2012-05-12 09:13:16 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Precisely.

Others have as well. Go back and look through the thread. Multiple people have said "what role does this ship fill?"


1 other person asked what role does it fill and was replied too. Multiple people have answered you specifically over this question however. The majority of the thread has been positive in support of the concept.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-05-12 09:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
XXSketchxx wrote:
If you can tell me a viable role that this ship would fill that is otherwise missing in the game and would not imbalance anything in the game or lead to abuse because of its abilities, I would gladly support it.



If it were able to fit a triage module, and while in triage got a bonus to range and high bonuses to rep amount of remote reps, but left immobile while doing so, then it would be a high sec POS repper.

Which, like I've also said, if we had a high sec mini dread for POS bashing, then they would both serve valid purposes and would basically have the same uses as dreads and carriers in low/null sec, but with a design built specifically with high sec in mind.

P.S. Going to sleep. I will defend more tomorrow.

I'm not defending because I feel this ship NEEDS to be in the game, but rather, I defending it because I'm tired of people attempting to shut down ship ideas because of this crap thought that new ships HAVE to fill roles and/or holes when many of the ships in game don't fill specific roles or holes, and those that do are only there because of ones that don't, or fill a specific role that isn't a needed role, but rather a "cool" or "fun factor" role, such as ewar ships...