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Sentry carriers - the future of isk printing
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Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#21 - 2012-05-10 12:22:44 UTC
Daerk Outamon wrote:
Zane Lowe wrote:
In EVEHQ I get 1875 DPS with Firbolgs (5 DCUs, Gal Carrier V)

Use painters and run forsaken hubs (no frigs)

I dont think sentry carriers will beat that anytime soon


Sentry carriers can already top a fighter Thanatos in terms of raw isk/hr, since fighters always miss their first volley (even when triple target painted) and have travel time, which reduces effective dps by a large margin. And unlike fighters sentrys don't need locks as they auto aggro whatever is attacking you, so you can easily run two or 3 diffrent sanctums at the same time if youre multiboxing carriers..

Fighter fits are still nice though, since you can rat alinged and instawarp if things get hot. But The Thanny has a great slot layout for sentries if you do choose to go that route anyways.


Nope.

Fighter thanatos beats sentry carriers currently by a large margin if flown and fitted correctly (4 DCU, 1 smartbomb, 3 TP). Focus in killing adjanced rats and clusters of BS so that your fighters won't MWD and miss - it reduces wasted shots and travel time drastically. Vs. frigates identify which fighter they are aggroed to and return it to orbit while killing the frig with other fighters.

Sentry carrier can hope for 30M sustained ticks with 2x sentry damage augmentor and 3x omnitrack II. Fighter thanatos can do 37-43M ticks sustained with good setup and focus.
Janoun
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-05-10 13:31:46 UTC
I can tell you've never actually ratted in a Sentry Carrier.
Why?
Because the control range bonus doesn't apply to drones, only fighters.
You need to fit Drone Link Augmentors to get enough conrol range.
Zofe Stormcaller
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-05-10 13:54:22 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
More carriers to kill ??

Awesome.


This. A carrier fit as OP described is a hot-dropper's happy place. For those that have never flown one, the align and warp time of a capital ship is glacially slow. To use one in an anomoly safely means being constantly aligned to a pos tower so you can get out if you get incoming hostiles. Sentry drones require their deploying ship to be sitting still as they don't move on their own and you need to be close to scoop them. This means that even if the pilot sees local spiking they still have to spend the next 30 seconds aligning which is enough time for hostiles to shotgun the anomalies and point the carrier. Fighters on the other hand do not need have this issue, or even need to be recalled as if you warp to safety they will warp with you on their own, plus that if another friendly gets tacked by hostiles you can assign them and any rescue ships fighters from the relative safety of the pos shield edge.

Even if i'm bored of mining and want to run anoms in a carrier rather than something sensible like a tier 3 battleship I never undock without a PVP fit and boosters in the hold. I want the reassurance that if I make a mistake or get awoxed by a spy that my carrier can tank the hostiles long enough for help to arrive, and then to provide carrier support to the fleet.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#24 - 2012-05-10 13:58:01 UTC
Zofe Stormcaller wrote:
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
More carriers to kill ??

Awesome.


This. A carrier fit as OP described is a hot-dropper's happy place. For those that have never flown one, the align and warp time of a capital ship is glacially slow. To use one in an anomoly safely means being constantly aligned to a pos tower so you can get out if you get incoming hostiles. Sentry drones require their deploying ship to be sitting still as they don't move on their own and you need to be close to scoop them. This means that even if the pilot sees local spiking they still have to spend the next 30 seconds aligning which is enough time for hostiles to shotgun the anomalies and point the carrier. Fighters on the other hand do not need have this issue, or even need to be recalled as if you warp to safety they will warp with you on their own, plus that if another friendly gets tacked by hostiles you can assign them and any rescue ships fighters from the relative safety of the pos shield edge.

Even if i'm bored of mining and want to run anoms in a carrier rather than something sensible like a tier 3 battleship I never undock without a PVP fit and boosters in the hold. I want the reassurance that if I make a mistake or get awoxed by a spy that my carrier can tank the hostiles long enough for help to arrive, and then to provide carrier support to the fleet.


0) optional: Shift-R
1) right click on carrier
2) jump -> cynosural array

~2 seconds if jumped, faster than the enemy drops from warp

Still: carriers get hotdropped, it's the pilots.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#25 - 2012-05-10 14:01:11 UTC
Janoun wrote:
I can tell you've never actually ratted in a Sentry Carrier.
Why?
Because the control range bonus doesn't apply to drones, only fighters.
You need to fit Drone Link Augmentors to get enough conrol range.


I have - it was a brain fart. Ran the eft with current mods and it's 1100dps at 100km optimal (bouncer) using 4x dcu without sentry rigs (which are going to be stacking penalized with EDA's possibly).

Scanres on the fit is 188 ~mach, in an Archon. Gardes get 1250dps but only 56k optimal.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#26 - 2012-05-10 14:03:18 UTC
Hungry Ghost wrote:
OP severelly underestimates power of stacking penalities.

Currently its possible to gain 1,196 modifier to sentry damage with 2*Large sentry damage augmentor I.
With drone damage mods it will be possible to gain something like 1,4 modifier with one t2 rig and 3-4 damage mods.
20% more damage is significant, but its nowhere near 1600 dps projected by OP for the best case scenario.


Yep, I ran the figures with the current info (15% EDA) and result is 1100 dps to 100km. Not too good, but will be akin to a ratting Thanatos on rest of the carriers.
Daerk Outamon
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-05-12 02:35:33 UTC
Stetson Eagle wrote:
Daerk Outamon wrote:
Zane Lowe wrote:
In EVEHQ I get 1875 DPS with Firbolgs (5 DCUs, Gal Carrier V)

Use painters and run forsaken hubs (no frigs)

I dont think sentry carriers will beat that anytime soon


Sentry carriers can already top a fighter Thanatos in terms of raw isk/hr, since fighters always miss their first volley (even when triple target painted) and have travel time, which reduces effective dps by a large margin. And unlike fighters sentrys don't need locks as they auto aggro whatever is attacking you, so you can easily run two or 3 diffrent sanctums at the same time if youre multiboxing carriers..

Fighter fits are still nice though, since you can rat alinged and instawarp if things get hot. But The Thanny has a great slot layout for sentries if you do choose to go that route anyways.


Nope.

Fighter thanatos beats sentry carriers currently by a large margin if flown and fitted correctly (4 DCU, 1 smartbomb, 3 TP). Focus in killing adjanced rats and clusters of BS so that your fighters won't MWD and miss - it reduces wasted shots and travel time drastically. Vs. frigates identify which fighter they are aggroed to and return it to orbit while killing the frig with other fighters.

Sentry carrier can hope for 30M sustained ticks with 2x sentry damage augmentor and 3x omnitrack II. Fighter thanatos can do 37-43M ticks sustained with good setup and focus.


Got off my ass and tried it on sisi, confiming his numbers, apologies for misinformation.

Might wan to pick up isboxer if you have more than one carrier though, fighters are a bit hard to micro
Ymmi Stenson
Future Overlords
#28 - 2012-05-13 19:10:11 UTC
PVE has never been ISK printing and never will be.

T2 BPOs were ISK printing, trading can be and blowing up insured battleshis sure was ISK printing.

But grinding PVE content is far from ISK printing.
SidtheKid100
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#29 - 2012-05-14 02:59:54 UTC
Ymmi Stenson wrote:
PVE has never been ISK printing and never will be.

T2 BPOs were ISK printing, trading can be and blowing up insured battleshis sure was ISK printing.

But grinding PVE content is far from ISK printing.


Hello:
L4 Faction Warfare missions would like a word with you.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I prefer posting with my main.
Ymmi Stenson
Future Overlords
#30 - 2012-05-14 07:29:11 UTC
SidtheKid100 wrote:

L4 Faction Warfare missions would like a word with you.
Problem with PVE is that you will actually have to spend lot´s of time on it. You are working for ISK, when you should let ISK work for you.
Sup B1tches
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-05-14 12:38:07 UTC
Zofe Stormcaller wrote:
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
More carriers to kill ??

Awesome.


This. A carrier fit as OP described is a hot-dropper's happy place. For those that have never flown one, the align and warp time of a capital ship is glacially slow. To use one in an anomoly safely means being constantly aligned to a pos tower so you can get out if you get incoming hostiles. Sentry drones require their deploying ship to be sitting still as they don't move on their own and you need to be close to scoop them. This means that even if the pilot sees local spiking they still have to spend the next 30 seconds aligning which is enough time for hostiles to shotgun the anomalies and point the carrier. Fighters on the other hand do not need have this issue, or even need to be recalled as if you warp to safety they will warp with you on their own, plus that if another friendly gets tacked by hostiles you can assign them and any rescue ships fighters from the relative safety of the pos shield edge.

Even if i'm bored of mining and want to run anoms in a carrier rather than something sensible like a tier 3 battleship I never undock without a PVP fit and boosters in the hold. I want the reassurance that if I make a mistake or get awoxed by a spy that my carrier can tank the hostiles long enough for help to arrive, and then to provide carrier support to the fleet.


This is why you may find ratting systems: a) cyno jammed, b) gates bubbles, c) everyone in local in one fleet so everyone can warp to the person being tackled, d) have scouts in adjacent systems, e) have local open in a separate window f) have their intel open.

Also, ratting in more than one carrier? sentries are better, and best when assisting a DPS BS. One carrier can be the main tank with RR, the other(s) carriers are usually for for pure DPS and agility with align times as good as a tier 1 BS.

Lastly, Shift+R recalls ur drones so no reason to leave any sentries out
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-05-14 20:28:22 UTC
[quote=Stetson Eagle]Misplaced wall of words for unnecessary concern/quote]
Pro-tip: Its nullsec. And thats a problem?

For gods ******* sake, its like every ******* person on this planet is living in shallow bubble of their own little world. Someone wants to rat in a carrier, go for it. Its not safe anway, cause I **** you not....you have to work to kill that carrier. How ******* dumb can you be if you belive A)Carrier is total risk free and B)No ******* way I have to work to kill it = OMG! RISKLESS! Roll

1. Highsec isn't safe, nut up and double down...you can still kill even those NPC characters in a raven...if you want to take a loss.

2. Lowsec isn't safe, but no one gives a **** to do there but you are too stupid to use the resources provided to you and how you make use of them is your problem. Don't forget, there are other ******* things to do in this game then play pretend butt pirate whining to CCP to move level 4s to lowsec....you could get mission runners to follow you and OMG!!!! THE PROFITS AND FIGHTS YOU MAY HAVE!!!! Lure people to attack your mission runners, you fight them off, you participate and fight red crosses to make isk or LP...its like you can't ******* lose? Or can you? Straight I am leaning more towards the last one, it is your problem how you use lowsec if you have no targets to shoot at.

3. Nullsec / Wormholes...same rules apply. You defend it, its yours sov or no sov. They kick you out, you lost it. Its your rules, where you are the kind of the mountain. Make use of the resources provided to you by CCP and stop punching yourself in the nuts beause all you want is PVP fights instead of doing PVE that produces isk for the wallet and the fights that it can bring.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#33 - 2012-05-16 21:08:43 UTC
Ymmi Stenson wrote:
PVE has never been ISK printing and never will be.

T2 BPOs were ISK printing, trading can be and blowing up insured battleshis sure was ISK printing.

But grinding PVE content is far from ISK printing.


Grinding PvE creates ISK from nowhere. Thus ISK Printing.

BPOs of any sort create 0 ISK, they just facilitate the transfer of already extant ISK. Thus Not ISK Printing.

Trading destroys ISK in the form of taxes. Thus Not ISK Printing.

The only one you got right was Insurance payouts.



The discussion of faucets and sinks doesn't really have anything to do with the balance of income sources either, so good job bringing up the red herring.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#34 - 2012-05-16 21:21:21 UTC
Daerk Outamon wrote:
Zane Lowe wrote:
In EVEHQ I get 1875 DPS with Firbolgs (5 DCUs, Gal Carrier V)

Use painters and run forsaken hubs (no frigs)

I dont think sentry carriers will beat that anytime soon


Sentry carriers can already top a fighter Thanatos in terms of raw isk/hr, since fighters always miss their first volley (even when triple target painted) and have travel time, which reduces effective dps by a large margin. And unlike fighters sentrys don't need locks as they auto aggro whatever is attacking you, so you can easily run two or 3 diffrent sanctums at the same time if youre multiboxing carriers..

Fighter fits are still nice though, since you can rat alinged and instawarp if things get hot. But The Thanny has a great slot layout for sentries if you do choose to go that route anyways.


A nice bonus about sentry carrier will be the added range which allows you not to run the local tank permanently. You'll have cap to evac jump out if **** hits the fan (PVP).
Nightshade Mary
Darkwater Innovations
#35 - 2012-05-25 13:13:55 UTC
Stetson Eagle wrote:


0) optional: Shift-R
1) right click on carrier
2) jump -> cynosural array

~2 seconds if jumped, faster than the enemy drops from warp

Still: carriers get hotdropped, it's the pilots.


You do realize that once people realize what you are doing, even if you have several cyno arrays at your disposal, it's quite easy to set up a nice hot drop at the POS you'll be appearing at...
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#36 - 2012-05-25 13:53:37 UTC
Nightshade Mary wrote:
Stetson Eagle wrote:


0) optional: Shift-R
1) right click on carrier
2) jump -> cynosural array

~2 seconds if jumped, faster than the enemy drops from warp

Still: carriers get hotdropped, it's the pilots.


You do realize that once people realize what you are doing, even if you have several cyno arrays at your disposal, it's quite easy to set up a nice hot drop at the POS you'll be appearing at...


Do you realize that once people realize what I'm doing and set up a hot drop, the ISK difference of a carrier loss has been made in farming isk efficiently .) Everything is relative etc etc.

Also, being able to evac jump doesn't mean you can't align and warp to pos when someone enters local.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-05-25 15:47:55 UTC
Nightshade Mary wrote:
Stetson Eagle wrote:


0) optional: Shift-R
1) right click on carrier
2) jump -> cynosural array

~2 seconds if jumped, faster than the enemy drops from warp

Still: carriers get hotdropped, it's the pilots.


You do realize that once people realize what you are doing, even if you have several cyno arrays at your disposal, it's quite easy to set up a nice hot drop at the POS you'll be appearing at...



If your nullsec systems are properly setup, you don't necessarily have to appear at any one cyno generator. If I were to take a carrier out ratting where I live, there are at least 2 dozen different locations that I can insta-jump to. And that isn't even counting having an alt in fleet that I can have light a cyno on a station somewhere. Lastly, having a number of characters out there camping the cyno gens is kinda noticable...

-Arazel
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#38 - 2012-05-26 03:25:09 UTC
On the bright side with the Drone upgrades and the missile upgrades I'm going to have fun dusting off my Rattlesnake to checking her out again.Big smile

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-27 07:28:20 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
I for one am looking forward to more ratting carrier kills.


^^ your shedding most of your tank to make a sentry carrier, and you cant fight aligned with sentries out unless you like losing them very frequently.
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-05-27 07:35:30 UTC
Stetson Eagle wrote:


0) optional: Shift-R
1) right click on carrier
2) jump -> cynosural array

~2 seconds if jumped, faster than the enemy drops from warp

Still: carriers get hotdropped, it's the pilots.


0) Jump to blind cyno
1) recon tackles you and lights cyno
2) a Nyx facerapes your carrier in about 30 seconds.
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