EVE General Discussion

How Much RR Is Too Much RR?



It is my belief that anything that prevents PVP’ers from dieing in mass is bad for the game. Observe the logistic ship, a vessel that has no stacking penalty to it’s LARGE RR mods, and can fit 4-5 of them depending on your build. That is an awful lot of healing space wizards. Now before you get all “cry more logi’s are so easy to counter”, lets just look at some numbers first shall we?


1 guardian is equivalent to a 5-6 man battleship fleet’s worth of remote repair on a single target (target ship plus fleet mates). Using an Armageddon as an example, a geddon does roughly 1,000 DPS and can repair at a rate of 213 if it has one other geddon in gang. What that means is that if you have 2 geddons fighting 2 other geddons, they are dealing 2,000 DPS and only repairing 213

End result… death happens.



Now, lets say you have a fleet of 5 Armageddon’s fighting another fleet of 5. DPS output is 5,000 and the RR rate is 851. End result, people are still dieing within the 1min aggression envelops given on stations or stargates.

Game… is balanced.






Enter The Logistics Ship

1 Guardian can rep 1 Armageddon to a tank of 851, and since they are designed to come in pairs the actual RR rate for a pair of guardians at logi Lv 4 will be around 1,700. If you add a second Armageddon that tank becomes 1,900, which is nearly EQUAL to the out going DPS.


This is not balanced.



If a fleet of 5 Armageddon’s engages another fleet of 5, and each side has 2 logistics ship, the out going DPS remains around 5,000 where as the repair rate of each fleet is now 2,900 (verses EM-Therm) So you are repairing 3/5ths of the incoming damage, on ships that have around 120+ EHP. This is simply not enough outgoing DPS Vs tank to result in death in 60 seconds. Null sec, low sec or empire…. It is not enough. Furthermore, it gets even worse when we start talking about capital ships and near to invulnerable AHACs.





1. Counter Them With ECM

Once ECM jammer with perfect skills on a guardian with base skills will only score a jam 36% of the time for 15 seconds. A guardian has enough capacitor to continue repairing for 1min 8 seconds once the capacitor chain drops, that means that tanked falcons are of only limited effect.


2. Counter with Remote Sensor Damps

With perfect skills a battleship can drop a guardians rep to 46KM which is still well outside of DPS range. It also forces the battleship to drop point, web, cap recharger or MWD… and only the Tempest is capable of doing that effectively, the rest simply do not have the slots. 2x damps brings the targeting ange down to 29KM, which is still plenty far for ships with such a tiny signature radius to avoid heavy incoming damage. Especially since each guardian can repair 2,000 DPS overheated.


3. Counter With Neuts

You need a minimum of 6 heavy energy neutralizers on a guardian in order to drop the guardians RR rate below 1 min with 3 large repair mods on, and one turned off. Made irrelevant since heavy neuts have a limited range and take up a highslot that must be reserved for battleship RR.

Conclusion; our “viable countermeasures” are only moderately effective under perfect circumstances.

Counter: Shoot it

Bad idea. Logistics makes fights fun and strategic, and last longer.

They already have plenty of counters.

I fly logi primarily in fleet fights, and there are plenty of times where I am ecm'd out of a fight entirely.

The only people that don't like logi are people who don't have friends.

Logi isn't nearly strong enough IMO. I'd increase their rep power by 2.5x.

You forgot Counter by shooting the logistics.

What you're suggesting would be that the logis get medium RR only, that means there's an open role for a large and a small logi. While a battleship class logistics vessel might be cool in theory, such a beast would be able to carry a small fleet even better than the cruisers.

What I think needs to happen here is that neuts and damps need a bit of a buff, or, even better, use them in a combination of ECM and damps to shut down a single ship for a long time.

This is the problem with scaling though, bringing 2 logis in a 7 man fleet is overkill, which is why it works. And if you're running into that too often, find a way to break it, there's always a counter. How about a Falcon and Arazu?

I'm not a WOW player so I could be wrong here, but shouldn't it be Cleric?

Mr Epeen

getting pissed at ppl for pointing out the obvious doesnt make it less obvious OR wrong.

DO have a question though; what is the BS logi ship?
Or do logi ships IE say Basilisk "heal" BS sized targets too?

Ive been giving thought to training a logi alt

Funny, I was thinking more like "Look at all the PVP bears not wanting to get rid of their risk adverse I win button, and lose a few ships each fight".

They would still have plenty of use, they just would not be able to act as the life guards of the sandbox in the same way that do now.