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Question/s to null and low sec players.

Author
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#241 - 2012-05-11 09:26:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon SilverHawk
Double quote
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#242 - 2012-05-11 09:28:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon SilverHawk
Gogela wrote:

Counterintuitive though it may seem, on a per-capita basis null gets safer the more people go out there because of the security relationships. If the ISK benefits of null were far greater than highsec, people would be moving out there in waves (we call them corps). They would form alliances which in turn would patrol space for pirates and enemies leaving you to do your lame NPC ISK farming in relative peace, and you would make a lot more per hr. The reason a lot of people don't go into null is that player infrastructure has left for greener pastures. You can easily make more in highsec then null... so why go? The best missions and resources should be in null. Then you could loose a BS and it would only set you back a couple of hours. The reason YOU don't want to go to null is because you haven't read anything about this game, you have like 2 strategies for making ISK, and you don't want to learn anything more or think, and you don't know how to PvP. If the incentive is brought back to null the alliances (some) will actually take the time to spoon feed you game knowledge so the larger organization can bennifit from your success. That's how it's supposed to work. I can see though you are too comfortable thinking in two dimensions, though... so that's all I'll say. Good luck to you..



You are talking out of your arse mate. I have been playing for nearly 9 years. In that time I have PVP'd been part of larger corps and alliances (when I had more time to commit), lived in low and nul sec and made ISK in many different and wonderful ways. How about you check your facts before claiming you know **** about me and my motivations and how much I know of the game.

I'm just explaining why some ppl don't go into lower sec. Coming in here and insulting ppl you know nothing about and making yourself look stupid isn't helping.

Some one needs to spoon feed you some humility.

Tal
Soloman Swift
Animus Imperat
#243 - 2012-05-11 12:45:35 UTC
I wrote a big long post but the forum swallowed it.

As someone who WANTS to be in null sec but has been part of and seen way too many of the downsides to the corps/alliances/mechanics/mindset of null sec:

Why would I give up other aspects of the EvE experience (Econ/Industry) to move to somewhere in a perma pvp mode with a bunch of people who, going by the forums and experience in game, get their kicks from being rude and treating anyone whos not in their little clique like a tool?

Sounds as much fun as chewing staples.
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#244 - 2012-05-11 13:30:16 UTC
Soloman Swift wrote:
I wrote a big long post but the forum swallowed it.

As someone who WANTS to be in null sec but has been part of and seen way too many of the downsides to the corps/alliances/mechanics/mindset of null sec:

Why would I give up other aspects of the EvE experience (Econ/Industry) to move to somewhere in a perma pvp mode with a bunch of people who, going by the forums and experience in game, get their kicks from being rude and treating anyone whos not in their little clique like a tool?

Sounds as much fun as chewing staples.

Nicely written! Exactly what I've been trying to get across.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#245 - 2012-05-11 13:58:11 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Funny how "the novelty wore off" at the exact same time as the anom nerf


Never done an anomaly in 0.0 Oops
I'd stayed in hi sec if I wanted to shoot red crosses you know.

But hey, as I posted above, it's 0.0 players who flip their alts back and from hi sec, NOT hi sec players.


It was pretty solid ISK, easily the best you could make easily and reliably when shooting NPCs, pre-incursion.

This statement is true.
Anomalies are good ISK.
I'm telling the truth.

Confirming I love to run L4s in highsec on my neutral alt (small corp to avoid paying NPC corp taxes, of course).



And I would bring my industrial/Tengu alt in null ASAP if it wasn't so restrictive for farming alts (some corporations, some alliances, some paranoia inside of course)
The time I run a lvl4 in high sec with my T2 Tengu and cash it out I'd be making double in null sec. Just an opinion.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#246 - 2012-05-11 14:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Look, it's all really quite simple.

You CANNOT force a player to do what he doesn't want to do.

I don't mean "cannot" as in "not able to with game mechanics". And I don't mean "you shouldn't". I mean you CAN NOT as in "the moment you do it, they cease to be a player of the game". Just like you cannot blow out the sun with flatulence, no matter how epic. This applies to both forcing the player, and trying to get him to do it by enticing him instead (high rewards in lower sec). If a player doesn't wish to be in low/null, he will not go to low/null. It's all really quite simple. And nothing will change that.

Now, you could remove high sec. The end result? The 60% of player base that live there will leave the game. Because...say it with me...you CANNOT force a player to do what he doesn't want to do! High sec exists, and is more populated than low and null and wormholes put together, because players WANT to be there. Take it away, or make it impractical, and all you will accomplish is lose the bulk of your player base.

I don't know how else I can explain that in simpler terms that you guys would understand. High sec isn't broken, it's a CHOICE. You can't "fix" a choice made by another player, and you can't force your playstyle on them. If their chosen playstyle becomes nonviable - either due to game rules redesign or hostile player interference - they simply leave.
Kieron VonDeux
#247 - 2012-05-11 15:09:09 UTC
Soloman Swift wrote:
I wrote a big long post but the forum swallowed it.

As someone who WANTS to be in null sec but has been part of and seen way too many of the downsides to the corps/alliances/mechanics/mindset of null sec:

Why would I give up other aspects of the EvE experience (Econ/Industry) to move to somewhere in a perma pvp mode with a bunch of people who, going by the forums and experience in game, get their kicks from being rude and treating anyone whos not in their little clique like a tool?

Sounds as much fun as chewing staples.


Very well written.
Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#248 - 2012-05-11 17:08:14 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Gogela wrote:

Counterintuitive though it may seem, on a per-capita basis null gets safer the more people go out there because of the security relationships. If the ISK benefits of null were far greater than highsec, people would be moving out there in waves (we call them corps). They would form alliances which in turn would patrol space for pirates and enemies leaving you to do your lame NPC ISK farming in relative peace, and you would make a lot more per hr. The reason a lot of people don't go into null is that player infrastructure has left for greener pastures. You can easily make more in highsec then null... so why go? The best missions and resources should be in null. Then you could loose a BS and it would only set you back a couple of hours. The reason YOU don't want to go to null is because you haven't read anything about this game, you have like 2 strategies for making ISK, and you don't want to learn anything more or think, and you don't know how to PvP. If the incentive is brought back to null the alliances (some) will actually take the time to spoon feed you game knowledge so the larger organization can bennifit from your success. That's how it's supposed to work. I can see though you are too comfortable thinking in two dimensions, though... so that's all I'll say. Good luck to you..

You are talking out of your arse mate. I have been playing for nearly 9 years. In that time I have PVP'd been part of larger corps and alliances (when I had more time to commit), lived in low and nul sec and made ISK in many different and wonderful ways. How about you check your facts before claiming you know **** about me and my motivations and how much I know of the game.

I'm just explaining why some ppl don't go into lower sec. Coming in here and insulting ppl you know nothing about and making yourself look stupid isn't helping.

Some one needs to spoon feed you some humility.

Tal

Ahhh.... I think the fact that you've been playing for 9 years and can't string together a few ships and are still having conniptions about loosing your ships in null speaks volumes. Some people get better at things when they do them for a long time. Guess you aren't in that club. You live a hard life. I would wager a great many tears have been harvested from your face. lol!

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#249 - 2012-05-11 17:15:10 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Soloman Swift wrote:
I wrote a big long post but the forum swallowed it.

As someone who WANTS to be in null sec but has been part of and seen way too many of the downsides to the corps/alliances/mechanics/mindset of null sec:

Why would I give up other aspects of the EvE experience (Econ/Industry) to move to somewhere in a perma pvp mode with a bunch of people who, going by the forums and experience in game, get their kicks from being rude and treating anyone whos not in their little clique like a tool?

Sounds as much fun as chewing staples.


Very well written.

YMMV.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#250 - 2012-05-11 19:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ana Vyr
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:

I guess you're right about one thing, high sec players don't fear PvP - they fear dying. Slight difference.


I don't fear either...I fear wasting my time making up for losses that I don't have to incur in the first place.

Time is the most precious thing I have. The consequences for death in EvE means you must spend time making up for it.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#251 - 2012-05-11 22:09:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon SilverHawk
Gogela wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Gogela wrote:

Counterintuitive though it may seem, on a per-capita basis null gets safer the more people go out there because of the security relationships. If the ISK benefits of null were far greater than highsec, people would be moving out there in waves (we call them corps). They would form alliances which in turn would patrol space for pirates and enemies leaving you to do your lame NPC ISK farming in relative peace, and you would make a lot more per hr. The reason a lot of people don't go into null is that player infrastructure has left for greener pastures. You can easily make more in highsec then null... so why go? The best missions and resources should be in null. Then you could loose a BS and it would only set you back a couple of hours. The reason YOU don't want to go to null is because you haven't read anything about this game, you have like 2 strategies for making ISK, and you don't want to learn anything more or think, and you don't know how to PvP. If the incentive is brought back to null the alliances (some) will actually take the time to spoon feed you game knowledge so the larger organization can bennifit from your success. That's how it's supposed to work. I can see though you are too comfortable thinking in two dimensions, though... so that's all I'll say. Good luck to you..

You are talking out of your arse mate. I have been playing for nearly 9 years. In that time I have PVP'd been part of larger corps and alliances (when I had more time to commit), lived in low and nul sec and made ISK in many different and wonderful ways. How about you check your facts before claiming you know **** about me and my motivations and how much I know of the game.

I'm just explaining why some ppl don't go into lower sec. Coming in here and insulting ppl you know nothing about and making yourself look stupid isn't helping.

Some one needs to spoon feed you some humility.

Tal

Ahhh.... I think the fact that you've been playing for 9 years and can't string together a few ships and are still having conniptions about loosing your ships in null speaks volumes. Some people get better at things when they do them for a long time. Guess you aren't in that club. You live a hard life. I would wager a great many tears have been harvested from your face. lol!


What a tool....
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#252 - 2012-05-11 22:47:55 UTC
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Perramas wrote:
Im not an o.o player, Im one of those who CCP Soundwave wishes to push by brute force into o.o space. The way to get me to stay in the game and move to o.o space would be to let me respec all the millions and millions of skillpoints I have in science, industry mining barges and exhumers into gunnery and spaceship skills. Otherwise I am nothing but a red plus or asteroid to be farmed or harvested. I do not wish to be farmed because I invested my training time into noncombat skills.


There's no reason why you couldn't be a 0.0 player though. There are minerals and missions and complexes in 0.0 and they are all more profitable than in empire.

The main reason you don't go is that you think that the second you enter you'll be ganked by 50 dudes, when the reality is that miners are more likely to be ganked in highsec these days.


Yeah, you are mistaken. 0.0 is safe for anyone moving within territories controlled by, (or at least safeguarded by), their Alliance, but for anyone else it is essentially a Deathtrap.

I have been in and out of 0.0 many times for many different reasons and not a one of them was spying or grief-cloaking. Every experience without exception has been extremely hazardous and many have ended with me being podded back to wherever I came from.

I suppose I have got through and back more times than been podded, but it isn't because someone, or more often multiple someones didn't try. I think I have ever only been in 0.0 once without actually having someone make the effort to gank me at some point. This includes Faction 0.0 just as much as it includes true Nullsec.

I've been playing ~5 years and while not specifically afraid to go into 0.0, I generally tend not to unless I'm forced to for some reason or willing to take the risk with a little minimization strategy. My experience has taught me the opposite of what you say is true, and I've been in most every section of 0.0, so it's not like I keep going back to any one particular place though I have visited a few places more often than others.

zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#253 - 2012-05-11 23:07:12 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Yeah, you are mistaken. 0.0 is safe for anyone moving within territories controlled by, (or at least safeguarded by), their Alliance, but for anyone else it is essentially a Deathtrap.

So, this is a setup for a joint "lol nullbear" and "~honor~less blobbers" post, right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#254 - 2012-05-12 00:09:22 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Yeah, you are mistaken. 0.0 is safe for anyone moving within territories controlled by, (or at least safeguarded by), their Alliance, but for anyone else it is essentially a Deathtrap.

So, this is a setup for a joint "lol nullbear" and "~honor~less blobbers" post, right?


I wouldn't even go so far with that idea. I see this thread as a haphazard attempt to bridge the gap between the two sectors. Seriously though, no trolling or being facetious, what nulsec alliance would allow anyone who isn't blue to traipse through their territory unmolested? Well...I mean besides a NRDS alliance. Roll

I don't know...I've been thinking about Nulsec, just don't know yet...I actually want to.
"If."
Aracimia Wolfe
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#255 - 2012-05-12 00:15:35 UTC
Nephilius wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Yeah, you are mistaken. 0.0 is safe for anyone moving within territories controlled by, (or at least safeguarded by), their Alliance, but for anyone else it is essentially a Deathtrap.

So, this is a setup for a joint "lol nullbear" and "~honor~less blobbers" post, right?


I wouldn't even go so far with that idea. I see this thread as a haphazard attempt to bridge the gap between the two sectors. Seriously though, no trolling or being facetious, what nulsec alliance would allow anyone who isn't blue to traipse through their territory unmolested? Well...I mean besides a NRDS alliance. Roll

I don't know...I've been thinking about Nulsec, just don't know yet...I actually want to.


In fairness you do have a point.

Red = Dead after all. In fact anything thats not blue = dead (especially green)

Thats not to say however that theres a lack of respect involved. simply that some of us, myself included are trigger happy killmail ho's.

That said it's nice to see new faces. And shoot them. But that doesn't mean we're going to be nasty about it. There was a dream once however. a dream of a thunder dome. a dream of freeports. A dream of a lowsec experience without those pesky gate guns. A dream that can never die.

Kill it with Fire!

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#256 - 2012-05-12 00:15:49 UTC
Nephilius wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Yeah, you are mistaken. 0.0 is safe for anyone moving within territories controlled by, (or at least safeguarded by), their Alliance, but for anyone else it is essentially a Deathtrap.

So, this is a setup for a joint "lol nullbear" and "~honor~less blobbers" post, right?


I wouldn't even go so far with that idea. I see this thread as a haphazard attempt to bridge the gap between the two sectors. Seriously though, no trolling or being facetious, what nulsec alliance would allow anyone who isn't blue to traipse through their territory unmolested? Well...I mean besides a NRDS alliance. Roll

I don't know...I've been thinking about Nulsec, just don't know yet...I actually want to.

Do not hesitate. Go. Join the corp of your choice, move your medical clone to their facilities, and pod yourself via self-destruct.

Leave your assets in high-sec as a "safety net" and go out there. You can always go back and sell them later.

I did.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Sernum
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#257 - 2012-05-12 00:15:58 UTC
buff to fw would go a long way
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#258 - 2012-05-12 00:45:17 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Nephilius wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Yeah, you are mistaken. 0.0 is safe for anyone moving within territories controlled by, (or at least safeguarded by), their Alliance, but for anyone else it is essentially a Deathtrap.

So, this is a setup for a joint "lol nullbear" and "~honor~less blobbers" post, right?


I wouldn't even go so far with that idea. I see this thread as a haphazard attempt to bridge the gap between the two sectors. Seriously though, no trolling or being facetious, what nulsec alliance would allow anyone who isn't blue to traipse through their territory unmolested? Well...I mean besides a NRDS alliance. Roll

I don't know...I've been thinking about Nulsec, just don't know yet...I actually want to.

Do not hesitate. Go. Join the corp of your choice, move your medical clone to their facilities, and pod yourself via self-destruct.

Leave your assets in high-sec as a "safety net" and go out there. You can always go back and sell them later.

I did.


Gustav, only one real thing really stops me...as mentioned, my inability to be on every night. I live so close to nulsec, it's almost funny. Like seven jumps from Goon space, provided they still have EC. I'm assuming they have had EC at one time, I've stuck my nose out there via the Black Rise back door before.

I don't know, you look at my KB and tell me if that's want you would want...last look I was 44-46, but my Isk destroyed/Isk lost is horribly skewed due to a gank that has BPCs valued as BPOs. Looks horrible. Ihate it, and honestly, that one incident really made me isolate myself from that point on.

But yeah, I think I would enjoy hooking up with a solid alliance out near my area, doing the nulsec thing. I've just never tried because the those stats and my real life. That's pretty much it.
"If."
Aracimia Wolfe
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#259 - 2012-05-12 00:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aracimia Wolfe
Nephilius wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Nephilius wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Yeah, you are mistaken. 0.0 is safe for anyone moving within territories controlled by, (or at least safeguarded by), their Alliance, but for anyone else it is essentially a Deathtrap.

So, this is a setup for a joint "lol nullbear" and "~honor~less blobbers" post, right?


I wouldn't even go so far with that idea. I see this thread as a haphazard attempt to bridge the gap between the two sectors. Seriously though, no trolling or being facetious, what nulsec alliance would allow anyone who isn't blue to traipse through their territory unmolested? Well...I mean besides a NRDS alliance. Roll

I don't know...I've been thinking about Nulsec, just don't know yet...I actually want to.

Do not hesitate. Go. Join the corp of your choice, move your medical clone to their facilities, and pod yourself via self-destruct.

Leave your assets in high-sec as a "safety net" and go out there. You can always go back and sell them later.

I did.


Gustav, only one real thing really stops me...as mentioned, my inability to be on every night. I live so close to nulsec, it's almost funny. Like seven jumps from Goon space, provided they still have EC. I'm assuming they have had EC at one time, I've stuck my nose out there via the Black Rise back door before.

I don't know, you look at my KB and tell me if that's want you would want...last look I was 44-46, but my Isk destroyed/Isk lost is horribly skewed due to a gank that has BPCs valued as BPOs. Looks horrible. Ihate it, and honestly, that one incident really made me isolate myself from that point on.

But yeah, I think I would enjoy hooking up with a solid alliance out near my area, doing the nulsec thing. I've just never tried because the those stats and my real life. That's pretty much it.


It shouldn't really matter. I'm not on every night. And yet I'm still out in Null. 100% participation is the realm of the elitist and the overbearing. What matters imho is honest commitment to the cause of your alliance and an ability and willingness to pitch in as and when you have that time.

And Killboards aren't a fair indication of success rate. Theres a great deal of kills I missed out on as I was providing another role for the fleet. Scouts don't get kills, but fleets don't get kills without scouts. Unless they're just derping it. and then they don't last as long

Kill it with Fire!

Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#260 - 2012-05-12 01:07:27 UTC
I re-engineered a nullsec corp and geared it towards the casual nullsec player. It is perfectly possible to play in nullsec casually, but only in "eve terms" casually. It does take a certain block of time to even get at fights in nullsec, or to really get sorted and get cooking in some isk generation. I'd say 1-2 2 hour blocks per week is the bare minimum to really enjoy the nullsec experience. There are still many players in my old corp who play this much and are great contributors to the corp and alliance. Anything less than that, I think you're better off elsewhere, I imagine WHs are similar.