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Plex issue
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Ellisha Shimaya
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-05-11 10:51:11 UTC
I had a friend in game offer to sell me a plex if i gave him cash out of game at a reduced price...

first is this allowed ? I know most things in Eve are allowed so hence why im asking. x
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-05-11 11:06:27 UTC
It's not allowed. What your friend is trying to do is a bannable offence and any assets gained through it will be removed from you, if you get cought.
Andy DelGardo
#3 - 2012-05-11 11:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy DelGardo
i'm so wrong
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2012-05-11 11:28:43 UTC
Andy DelGardo wrote:
Actually in this case its totally legal, since the plex owned by your friend is acquired legally and last time i checked if i own a good i can resell/trade it at whatever transaction a second party agrees too. Hence u can even sell your car for Plex if u wish so, since this is a private transaction and agreement between 2 individuals.

The key here is that the ingame transaction is a simple exchange, trade that is not tied to anything u agree on out of the game. Since its not illegal to exchange a plex using ingame mechanics, there is no problem at all what u agree upon out of game. So something like "Hey i send u a plex, if u pay for next weeks beer's." is totally fine.

bye Andy



Nope.

You don't own anything in game.

Go read the EULA. CCP retains ownership of /everything/. CCP will ban people who sell stuff out of game.

If it was a GTC card, potentially different story.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#5 - 2012-05-11 11:31:24 UTC
Not quite Andy, you need to go back and read the EULA.

Now I'll assume you live somewhere where EULAs actually mean something. If your friend is selling you a voucher code for a plex out of game then that's all fine and dandy. If it is an in-game PLEX for out of game money then no, CCP won't like that. It's RMT, the only difference is that you aren't doing it through a dodgy website.

Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs: ** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 **The Full Pocket Aggro blog:  http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ **Now showing: **Margin Trading Scams
Andy DelGardo
#6 - 2012-05-11 11:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy DelGardo
also wrong
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#7 - 2012-05-11 11:38:12 UTC
Still no. A plex sitting in the redemption system is still in-game.


I assume you also approve of RMT Blink

Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs: ** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 **The Full Pocket Aggro blog:  http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ **Now showing: **Margin Trading Scams
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#8 - 2012-05-11 11:39:04 UTC
oh, I should probably note that there is a distinct difference between what is allowed, what is legal and what you can get away with.

Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs: ** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 **The Full Pocket Aggro blog:  http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ **Now showing: **Margin Trading Scams
Andy DelGardo
#9 - 2012-05-11 11:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy DelGardo
wrong
Andy DelGardo
#10 - 2012-05-11 11:54:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy DelGardo
Lauren Hellfury wrote:

I assume you also approve of RMT Blink


I approve that the company that owns the intellectual property can do whatever it wants with it. If they choose to RMT for it sure its called Microtransactions and in eve's case "Plex" aka game time. I don't approve of 3d parties that own no right on the intellectual property to make money out of it, but like i noted private person/agreement != 3d party RMT company.

bye Andy
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#11 - 2012-05-11 11:57:24 UTC
See, this is why I said that there is a difference between what is allowed, what is legal and what you can get away with.

For what the OP laid out it is as follows:

NOT allowed.
IS legal.
WILL probably get away with it.

Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs: ** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 **The Full Pocket Aggro blog:  http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ **Now showing: **Margin Trading Scams
Damien Smith
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-05-11 12:02:42 UTC
Lauren Hellfury wrote:

WILL probably get away with it.


Well, maybe until he had the bright idea of posting on the forums about it...
Andy DelGardo
#13 - 2012-05-11 12:04:39 UTC
OKi i retract all i said:

Quote:
B. Selling Items and Objects

You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.


I'm not a lawyer so i don't know if u actually can put "verbal private agreements" on the "or any other means" clause. So no i was wrong and its punished by CCP.

bye Andy :)
Andy DelGardo
#14 - 2012-05-11 12:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy DelGardo
Damien Smith wrote:
Lauren Hellfury wrote:

WILL probably get away with it.


Well, maybe until he had the bright idea of posting on the forums about it...


Still think about the actual case: We CCP conduct that PlayerA did receive a Plex from PlayerB at the 22.05.2012 and at that same day PlayerA and PlayerB did exchange 10$ at the park in secrecy, as shown in this surveillance video! We can conduct that those 10$ exchanged could only be for the prior noted Plex received, since they approximately have the same value! Case solved PlayerA is banned and PlayerB gets its Plex back.

:)
EFF ONEF1
Caldari Grand Prix Engineering
#15 - 2012-05-11 12:56:01 UTC
Ellisha Shimaya wrote:
I had a friend in game offer to sell me a plex if i gave him cash out of game at a reduced price...

first is this allowed ? I know most things in Eve are allowed so hence why im asking. x



Why technically not allowed.

No one would know the better. I have no way to know what you are doing out of game.

Better yet, make the trade in beer and CCP would probably jump on board!



or take the plex and dont pay him. that would for sure be "eve is real"
De Guillaume
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2012-05-11 12:56:04 UTC
Is he a real friend or a pretend friend?

2nd if a real friend, in the real world, if you know what that is, how would anyone know you did that. Untill you ofc opened this thread so now if ccp see u gave anyone a plex, they will assume u RMT and ban you.

so overall. YOUR AN IDIOT.

and don't RMT. its a naughty thing

Has you ever went so far as chose to go even use want to look more like do?
Andy DelGardo
#17 - 2012-05-11 12:59:18 UTC
Sorry its friday, but i found a other interesting angle on this.

PlayerA to PlayerB: "Hey PlayerB could u buy a GTC from XY and send me a plex ingame, since i only need 1 month. I will give u the approximated value in $".

This seems totally legal to me even if u look at the EULA, so whats the difference from OP?
Andy DelGardo
#18 - 2012-05-11 13:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy DelGardo
De Guillaume wrote:
they will assume u RMT and ban you.

so overall. YOUR AN IDIOT.

and don't RMT. its a naughty thing



Wrong, legally u don't do anything based on "assumptions", even if i post: "tomorrow i will RMT for 100Plex HAHA!" and than actually receive 100Plex, means nothing in legal terms. U can claim or say whatever u like :)

Also legally Plex in eve is really special, since it represents a form of game time and has a easy measurable value. So while it is hard to determine the real value of a "+5 Epic slayer sword" its actually easy to determine the $ value of a plex. Now also try to proof a significant difference, between a "number code" i enter in the game and get a month long of "subscription" and a item i right-click and get a month subscription. Even if a plex is a ingame item, from a legal standpoint its not this different from a GTC.

I can see both sided to field some interesting angles on this problem, since the intrinsic value of a "a month subscription time" does not change by converting a GTC to 2xPlex.



PS: oki oki i better stop now and go home :p
Ellisha Shimaya
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-05-11 13:50:55 UTC
got the love the replies.. the only plexes I have brought have been through Account Managment and CCP can check that.. I only asked as i was not sure my in game friend was allowed to do this as I thought it could be a scam.. but as most say who is to know.

enjoyed the replies thank you. got to love Eve x
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#20 - 2012-05-11 14:43:15 UTC
Bottom line - the only correct answer is "open a petition under Rules & Policies / EUA & ToS".

The GMs can give you the official answer and you can never get in trouble for asking about a potential situation.