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War Dec, Kill Reports and New Modules discussion

First post First post
Author
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#381 - 2012-05-10 23:02:58 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I don't know if you noticed but dragging of kill reports to chat to share them is back in!

With help from few people on Sisi today I fixed an issue in the Kill Reports which prevented you to open some of them.

I've also done quite a lot of polish to the ally system UI and war entries so it should be easier to understand and use now.

I made all these changes today so I hope they'll be on Sisi tomorrow for you to test!

I also wanted to thank you who have filed bug reports, they help alot!


when are you guys going to announce the dueling system via the mercenary marketplace?


i know you are working on it...

just do it...

get err done...

bavakasha

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#382 - 2012-05-10 23:06:18 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I don't know if you noticed but dragging of kill reports to chat to share them is back in!

With help from few people on Sisi today I fixed an issue in the Kill Reports which prevented you to open some of them.

I've also done quite a lot of polish to the ally system UI and war entries so it should be easier to understand and use now.

I made all these changes today so I hope they'll be on Sisi tomorrow for you to test!

I also wanted to thank you who have filed bug reports, they help alot!


when are you guys going to announce the dueling system via the mercenary marketplace?


i know you are working on it...

just do it...

get err done...

bavakasha


what do you mean? you can see it on Sisi now and there'll be some dev blog out next week probablyBig smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#383 - 2012-05-10 23:09:35 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I don't know if you noticed but dragging of kill reports to chat to share them is back in!

With help from few people on Sisi today I fixed an issue in the Kill Reports which prevented you to open some of them.

I've also done quite a lot of polish to the ally system UI and war entries so it should be easier to understand and use now.

I made all these changes today so I hope they'll be on Sisi tomorrow for you to test!

I also wanted to thank you who have filed bug reports, they help alot!


when are you guys going to announce the dueling system via the mercenary marketplace?


i know you are working on it...

just do it...

get err done...

bavakasha


what do you mean? you can see it on Sisi now and there'll be some dev blog out next week probablyBig smile



you calling me a sisi?

lets duel?

my blasters will make you melt in my arms while we dance the tango of lead Big smile

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#384 - 2012-05-10 23:18:18 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I don't know if you noticed but dragging of kill reports to chat to share them is back in!

With help from few people on Sisi today I fixed an issue in the Kill Reports which prevented you to open some of them.

I've also done quite a lot of polish to the ally system UI and war entries so it should be easier to understand and use now.

I made all these changes today so I hope they'll be on Sisi tomorrow for you to test!

I also wanted to thank you who have filed bug reports, they help alot!


when are you guys going to announce the dueling system via the mercenary marketplace?


i know you are working on it...

just do it...

get err done...

bavakasha


what do you mean? you can see it on Sisi now and there'll be some dev blog out next week probablyBig smile



you calling me a sisi?

lets duel?

my blasters will make you melt in my arms while we dance the tango of lead Big smile


you are so weirdShockedShockedShockedBlink

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#385 - 2012-05-11 00:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
CCP Punkturis wrote:


you are so weirdShockedShockedShockedBlink


indeed...

if you want to hear a weird idea... how about make medical clones industry based...make them a PI thing that i can harvest on my own... make the clone types have manufacturing using robotics/nano tech and that bio slury that clones are made out of?

one of the things that bothers me is as i get 100+ skills it gets rather expensive to die...

i would like the ability for medical clones cost to be market based vrs stagnant as eve is a sandbox....

example i setup the chain the planet a that harvests bio stuff that i then turn into a clone...

each clone type bpcs would be seeded to sisters of eve stations in game...

the higher up the clone the more expensive it becomes...

this would allow players to have control over the clone prices...

and moreover would allow old players like me be able to afford to pvp casually...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Azura Solus
Rules of Acquisition
#386 - 2012-05-11 00:20:58 UTC
Any update on when we will get a comprehensive list of the detailed War dec changes.
Ohh Yeah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#387 - 2012-05-11 00:42:12 UTC
Azura Solus wrote:
Any update on when we will get a comprehensive list of the detailed War dec changes.


"Later last week"
Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#388 - 2012-05-11 01:03:38 UTC
Right
On to the module so terrible nobody has even bothered giving any feedback on it.

These drones are marginally effective at the best of times and flat out useless in most other situations.
Heavies provide some decent speed reduction, but are so slow themselves that they aren't really worth using outside of highly regulated/situational engagements

The new lights and mediums are nice and quick, but the web amount they give is pathetic due to stacking penalty. 4'th and 5'th light web drones reduce total speed by <1% each.

Sooo it seems to me we could either alter the stacking penalty or adjust the web amount
Stacking penalty is a bit complicated for my coffee deprived brain atm, so I was thinking adjust the web drones like this:

SW-900 - 20% web -> 25% web
SW-600 - 10% web -> 15% web
SW-300 - 5% web -> 10% web



Obviously fiddling the stacking penalty in regards to drones would be a better solution, but I'm not sure how long/complicated that would be, and a little web buff to these drones might well achieve a similar effect

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Azura Solus
Rules of Acquisition
#389 - 2012-05-11 01:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Azura Solus
Along with the war theme of inferno a idea i came up with that would Help with deccing large corps particularly . I know its off topic but i assumed that the Ui team would be responsible for it if it can to be. Basic idea is a import/export feature for contact lists and a easier way to auto link mass amounts of characters to either add to contacts or put in a eve mail Anywho here is the link to the post.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=107588

Edit: While i know its too late to be added right now Definitely would help to see it in a patch sometime after
Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#390 - 2012-05-11 07:49:35 UTC
Quote:
Ok you asked for it. Time to brake it down for you in more detail.

Fist of all , witch ships could potentially benefit from an EDA regardless of high or low slot.
- Drone Boats
- high bandwidth BS
- maximizing dps on a Ship with drone bandwidth
- EW ships that have drone bandwidth.

Lets get in to facts:
Drone boats
-sub BS/BC: which balanced frig or cruiser sized ship setup should benefit from that ? sacrificing a vital Speed mod for dps, not seeing that happening, and those that potentially could consider sacking a low have much much more highs to spare.

-BC aka Myrmidon and Eos , both Gallente, both with armor tanking bonus and both with highs to spare.

Dornes don't need a lock
Drones dont use Cap
Droens are much more mobile then the ship that uses them
Drones are very Versatile, diferent sizes, a choice of damage type, and EW

...

Now show me how your "Opinion" beats my Data.



The fitting I showed, which was pure hurf blurf, to demonstrate, that in fact a Domi could get high dps with blasters already. It was made to show, that nobody should start whining about "high dps drones", before changes are even made, because EDAs will only trade the damage of turrets to get more drone damage.

Adding EDAs to turret bonused ships and then telling the drone boats are op, is a funny move. You know, that you need one highslot and two midslots already, to use the Drones on a Domi There are not many ships in the game that actually have a drone dmg bonus. These are the ships, that should benefit. If you work out a fitting that benefits from EDAs, not beeing a Droneplatform, nice, but not the primary goal.


An Eos has "spare" highslots to mount warfare links as it is intended. It's a command ship.
The Myrm has unbonused highslots, where most people put 425 or 220 Autocannons and fly it as Shieldtank. Some lone wolfs out htere might really use the tripple rep setup, but thats not a common fit.


Why should ships benefit and get a dps boost, which have totally different roles, than applying dps on other ships, or applying even more dps via drones.
My Machariel, for example, will be fine with an EDA in a highslot, since it is so low on dps and totally needs that last utility slot it has, made a dmg boosting slot. (sarcasm!)



Dornes don't need a lock

-they need at least one lock and even if you get that one, they probably will attack that NPC frig 80km away. Relying on drone AI? Are you kidding me?


Drones dont use Cap

-projectile weapons don't either, so what?


Droens are much more mobile then the ship that uses them

-sure, if you fly a brick. Nearly every ship in EVE can hold a set of warriors, so you seem to talk about the superfast Ogre II, I heard so much about?


Drones are very Versatile, different sizes, a choice of damage type, and EW

-Most ships can hold a set of EW drones. Caldari and Minmatar can switch damage types, too.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#391 - 2012-05-11 13:34:57 UTC
Will the EDA work also on EW and support drones by the way?

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Cap Tyrian
Guiding Hand Social Club
#392 - 2012-05-11 15:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cap Tyrian


Holly ****, Barby i thought i was talking to someone with at least a medium game understanding and some common sense.

I'll leave your comments unexplained so you can revew them yourself and do one massive Face Palm after the other.


hmmmmmm I might be overestimating you again, ok hers some few short points to choke on.


Idea"You know, that you need one highslot and two midslots already, to use the Drones on a Domi."

Actually you just need drones.

Idea"There are not many ships in the game that actually have a drone dmg bonus. These are the ships, that should benefit."

Yes thats my hole point, drone ships don't benefit from low slot EDA's. the greatest benefiters are Dominix, shield myrmi and Max DPS BS. As i have already shown, the domi can surpass all other BS

Idea"because EDAs will only trade the damage of turrets to get more drone damage. "

No, quite literally they ad drone damage on top of turret damage, where as if they were highslot they would exchange damage.

Idea"Adding EDAs to turret bonused ships and then telling the drone boats are op, is a funny move."

Barby, i did you the math, THE MATH !!!!!! Data>Opinion

Idea"An Eos has "spare" highslots to mount warfare links as it is intended. It's a command ship."

You almost have it Barby, you just need to put the jigsaw pieces together in the right order.

Idea"The Myrm has unbonused highslots, where most people put 425 or 220 Autocannons and fly it as Shieldtank."

Gallente, Ship Bonuses, Proposed highslot EDA's , common sense.....

Idea"Why should ships benefit and get a dps boost, which have totally different roles"

-.-facepalm -.- for god sake...so much fail in this.

Idea"Droens are much more mobile then the ship that uses them
-sure, if you fly a brick. Nearly every ship in EVE can hold a set of warriors, so you seem to talk about the superfast Ogre II, I heard so much about?"


Ogre II faster then Domi. Blaster boat flies to target, Drones already there.

Idea"Drones are very Versatile, different sizes, a choice of damage type, and EW
-Most ships can hold a set of EW drones. Caldari and Minmatar can switch damage types, too. "


Drones are not versatile because Winmatar is it as well ?

I lath and have nutting further to discuss with the likes of you.
LaserzPewPew
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#393 - 2012-05-11 15:44:55 UTC
Ironically, he's right. Almost anything subcap with a MWD is faster than an ogre. It's embarrassing.
Cap Tyrian
Guiding Hand Social Club
#394 - 2012-05-11 16:25:40 UTC
Statement
Quote:
Droens are much more mobile then the ship that uses them

Data

Ogre II Max speed 1050m/s
Berserkers 1575m/s
Dominix 136m/s

with 100mn MWD 1005m/s c very cap dependent, takes forever to speed up

+drone boat can use smaller faster drones as well,

Drones will reach their target before the battleship gets in blaster range.

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#395 - 2012-05-11 19:10:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
So on the topic of WarDec prices, I did the following:

WarDec 1: [YAR] Alliance -vs- 49 man corp
Cost: 50,000,000 for dec.

WarDec 2: [YAR] Alliance -vs- 2 Man Corp
Cost: 100,000,000 for dec.

WarDec 3: [YAR] Alliance -vs- 180 Man corp
Cost: 150,000,000 for dec.

WarDec 4: [YAR] Alliance -vs- any # man corp
Cost: 200,000,000 for dec.


Some thoughts: It wasn't entirely evident in the interface what the re-occurring cost would be for maintaining the dec on a weekly basis. Obviously I assume since the cost scaling seems pretty much +50mil per additional dec that the first dec would cost 50 mil a week to maintain, and the second 100, and so forth... If that is the case you might add a line under the wardec confirmation screen that that is the case. Second, I have to say the cost of making a wardec is really reasonable. It makes it so anyone can lash out at anyone else, and I think that is a good thing. I was really concerned about scaling based on member count b/c the obvious initial move any corp trying to decshield would do is move in a bunch of alts. Has this concept been abandoned or is this still part of the recurring wardec cost? Anyway, things look really good on the wardec front atm. Thanks for this!

Also I'd like to respond to this:
Tobiaz wrote:
I just tried out the wardec system and i'm quite curious about the prices.

I wardecced a 1-man corp and that was 50m isk, but the CONCORD mail says:
Quote:
The weekly cost is 100.000.000,00 ISK and you will receive a bill which needs to be paid promptly to maintain the war. If the bill is not paid before it is due then the war will be cancelled. If the war is cancelled then do not pay any outstanding bills for that war.


Also when wardeccing larger corporations or alliances, the 20m or 50m isk + 500k/member rule doesn't seem to apply. Small corps cost either 50 or 100m ISK but it isn't clear why. Yet EVE Uni with 1806 members costs 484.649.761 ISK, TEST with 6483 costs 942.306.241 ISK, Goons with 8498 costs1.071.672.973 ISK. IT"S A BLOODY MESS.

I still think a MUCH better way to calculate the war-bill is this:

Divide corporations and alliances into size-classes with individual price tags
1-10 (15 M)
10-25 (25 M) - this is a rather crucial corp size-bracket so it should not be 10-50 or something
25-50 (40 M)
50-100 (75 M)
100-250 (150 M)
250-500 (350 M)
500-1000 (600 M)
1000+ (750 M)

The weekly war-bill is simply the sum of the price-tags belonging to both corporations.

18 member corp declares war on 890 member alliance: 625m ISK per week
84 member corp declares war on 8 member corporation: 165m ISK per week

The size brackets make it a LOT more comprehensible then the very messy way it is now on SiSi and it also protects smaller corps against larger corps, while not giving mega corporations a ISK decshield against small corporations. It even reduces the effect of member-padding.

I don't like the idea of breaking out corps into classes. The more you are successful and the bigger your corp gets the more of a target you should be. The smaller you are the less attractive. What if the goons were harassing a small corp and that smaller corp wanted to strike back at them? War is the ultimate break down of diplomacy... it should be an equalizer. But if you scale the cost of attacking the goons the small corp getting picked on might not be able to afford to strike back. I think that goes against the idea of war. It is when you can't afford it... when you can't take it anymore... that is precisely the time to go to war. I haven't encountered the prie scaling for the larger corps yet... but it seems like a raw deal if the little guy can't strike back against the bigger entity.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

bldyannoyed
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#396 - 2012-05-11 19:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: bldyannoyed
Actually, if you want to use sentries in any kind of useful capacity then yes, you do in fact need a DLA and preferably a pair of omni links. And you will need to use sentries as soon as you want to shoot at something more than 20km away because the travel time on your heavies makes you cry.

But its all irrelevant anyway cos CCP posted, either in this thread or the one dedicated to the EDA's, that they DO NOT EXPECT THIS MODULE ON ITS OWN TO BE THE ONLY FIX DRONES GET.

Is that clear enough?

There are going to be other things happening to drones, my money is on a sub capital drone control unit. Something that would give drones the ability to be a focused weapon system, cos high or low even at 22% the EDA on its own does not do that.

EDIT: Looked up the supposed "Data" of the 1600 and odd dps domi fit. Lol. You realise that in order to actually fit this thing with 6 damage mods and neutrons you need to fit 2x ACR, assuming you want an MWD and an injector (which you do). And if you don't fit anything else except tank (shield obviously) you can get it up to a whopping 69k EHP. Also don't forget that un tracking boosted blasters are ******* useless.

The only thing that the "Data" proves is something that anyone with a working brain already knows f.e.x numbers taken out of context can be used to "Prove" anything.
bldyannoyed
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#397 - 2012-05-11 19:29:23 UTC
double post
LaserzPewPew
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#398 - 2012-05-11 19:38:44 UTC  |  Edited by: LaserzPewPew
Cap Tyrian wrote:
Statement
Quote:
Droens are much more mobile then the ship that uses them

Data

Ogre II Max speed 1050m/s
Berserkers 1575m/s
Dominix 136m/s

with 100mn MWD 1005m/s c very cap dependent, takes forever to speed up

+drone boat can use smaller faster drones as well,

Drones will reach their target before the battleship gets in blaster range.



We are comparing heavy drones to heavy guns. If we wanted to compare hammerheads to smaller guns, we could, and would comparatively find the same results in speed, range, damage, and tracking. Stay on topic.

Berserkers are faster because they do a hundred less dps. If you wanted, you could put in longer range ammo and take a dps hit, then the domi would be "in range sooner." Do not compare apples to oranges. Stop using fallacies in your argument. It will convolute the topic.

Ogre II Activation proximity 4km.

Blaster range ~10k base range

Much faster =/= before

You know what this proves? That ogres are about as effective as heavy blasters.

You know how effective heavy blasters are? Almost non-existent in current PvP. Your argument is far too fluid, based largely on uninformed opinion, and citing EFT warrioring as hard data. Your argument is invalid.
Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#399 - 2012-05-12 11:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenga Halaris
Here's a more realistic PvE fit for the Domi:


[Dominix, PvE example]
True Sansha Large Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Ogre II x5

Skills all V, no imps:

350 tank
915 DPS with Garde II + Antimatter in Optimal, 400m weaponsig
87 km targeting
75 km drone range
(A fitting like this works way better on a Domi Navy)

Looking at a PvE fit, you can see that drone and turret dps are more or less balanced dps wise, but have different stats, considering tracking, optimal and falloff. ( 420 dps with turrets, 495 dps with drones )


350s: (Antimatter, 2x magstab, 1x tracking)

tracking: 0.017
optimal/ falloff: 31+ 32 km


Garde II: (2x Omni II)

tracking: 0.054
optimal/ falloff: 45,6 + 12 km



If you now change the magstabs and use EDAs, it is an effective damage boost, even if you have the same numbers in dps.
The bad part is, that using sentries requires standing still, thus making you more vulnerable or just slower doing what you do, in some cases.
You also only use Ogres or in general Hevaies, if you fight in close range, which dosn't happen very often. Some Angel or Serpentis BS will get close, if you can't kill them, approaching you.



So comparing a Mega, or any other turret ship, to a Domi (RS, Ishtar, Myrm, Gila) never works, because you are comparing totally different styles of flying.


In PvP a Dominix is used for RR and/ or Nos Neut, using drones only as a support, in most cases.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#400 - 2012-05-13 08:34:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
@CCP Punkturis, we can't really test it now it's still on the test server, but are all the war reports (kills&losses), war history etc available through the API?

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!