These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

War Dec, Kill Reports and New Modules discussion

First post First post
Author
Shandir
Indigo Archive
#361 - 2012-05-09 19:48:21 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
I've been testing out the war dec system a bit more. It seems that making a war mutual makes it impossible for the attacking to stop the war unless it offers formal surrender or disbands. THIS IS EXCELLENT!!! If you bite off more then you can chew, you deserve having to swallow a Treaty of Versailles.
...


the surrender icon should be shown with a ! for both parties when a surrender offer has been made.

if it doesn't I should probably fix itBlink


Can a dev confidently confirm that this 'attacker cannot drop war' mechanic is intended?
If so, TwistedawesomeTwisted. That is a step in the right direction.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#362 - 2012-05-09 19:56:44 UTC
Shandir wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
I've been testing out the war dec system a bit more. It seems that making a war mutual makes it impossible for the attacking to stop the war unless it offers formal surrender or disbands. THIS IS EXCELLENT!!! If you bite off more then you can chew, you deserve having to swallow a Treaty of Versailles.
...


the surrender icon should be shown with a ! for both parties when a surrender offer has been made.

if it doesn't I should probably fix itBlink


Can a dev confidently confirm that this 'attacker cannot drop war' mechanic is intended?
If so, TwistedawesomeTwisted. That is a step in the right direction.


Confirming that the only way to end a mutual war is by either side surrendering. This is intentional, it's part of making declaring a war more of a commitment and potential risk.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#363 - 2012-05-09 20:04:24 UTC
The lock breaker did not break any locks for me with 3 people targeting me and shooting. While I see the need to make it random to fit it for any small gang pvp I need atleast a reasonable chance that it will break the locks if I manage to tank some one for 10 min plus.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#364 - 2012-05-09 20:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
CCP Punkturis wrote:


the surrender icon should be shown with a ! for both parties when a surrender offer has been made.

if it doesn't I should probably fix itBlink


Yeah it does actually, I see it now. Only it seems to update incredibly slow and erratically. I've tried it several times and it always took a lot of minutes before it was updated.

There are quite a lot of other things not working very well though. I've just put in six bug reports on the wardec system alone. Though not for the slow updating of icon as just mentioned. How do I bug report 'lazy server'? Lol

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Shandir
Indigo Archive
#365 - 2012-05-09 20:32:45 UTC
Salpun wrote:
The lock breaker did not break any locks for me with 3 people targeting me and shooting. While I see the need to make it random to fit it for any small gang pvp I need atleast a reasonable chance that it will break the locks if I manage to tank some one for 10 min plus.

It's obvious this module is designed to be a limiter to blob warfare / primary calling. It's not *for* small gang vs small gang. It will work for small gang vs large gang though. Guerilla tactics effectiveness ++
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#366 - 2012-05-09 20:35:21 UTC
Shandir wrote:
Salpun wrote:
The lock breaker did not break any locks for me with 3 people targeting me and shooting. While I see the need to make it random to fit it for any small gang pvp I need atleast a reasonable chance that it will break the locks if I manage to tank some one for 10 min plus.

It's obvious this module is designed to be a limiter to blob warfare / primary calling. It's not *for* small gang vs small gang. It will work for small gang vs large gang though. Guerilla tactics effectiveness ++

Sure untill the numbers are worked out more data the better one of the other guys got it to scram 3 times before he was poped so there is a low number that will trigger it.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#367 - 2012-05-09 20:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
CCP SoniClover wrote:


Confirming that the only way to end a mutual war is by either side surrendering. This is intentional, it's part of making declaring a war more of a commitment and potential risk.


Good to see that was fully intentional. CCP definitely has the right intentions for wardecs.

I still think the new way to calculate warbills is a bloody mess though. When the only way to find out how much it costs to wardec a corp, is by actually wardeccing them, IT IS NOT OK

I'm fully aware CCP doens't like to pull a 180 on things once they are on SiSi, but calculating the warbill by using size-classes as I mentioned a few posts earlier, is much, MUCH more comprehensible and more elegant, while yielding prices of the same magnitude and gameplay consequences as it is achieved now on SiSi with a minimum price and what seems to be a logarithmic member-modifier.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Shandir
Indigo Archive
#368 - 2012-05-09 20:48:53 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:


Confirming that the only way to end a mutual war is by either side surrendering. This is intentional, it's part of making declaring a war more of a commitment and potential risk.


Good to see that was fully intentional. CCP definitely has the right intentions for wardecs.

I still think the new way to calculate warbills is a bloody mess though. When the only way to find out how much it costs to wardec a corp, is by actually wardeccing them, IT IS NOT OK

I'm fully aware CCP doens't like to pull a 180 on things once they are on SiSi, but calculating the warbill by using size-classes as I mentioned a few posts earlier, is much, MUCH more comprehensible while yielding prices of the same magnitude and gameplay consequences as it is achieved now on SiSi with a minimum price and what seems to be a logarithmic member-modifier.

Could you share some of your data, so we can see what sort of price ranges are being planned?
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#369 - 2012-05-09 20:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Shandir wrote:

Could you share some of your data, so we can see what sort of price ranges are being planned?


If that was directed to me and not SoniClover, I checked out a few alliances on SiSi

Some results are in my earlier post in this thread : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1272735#post1272735

It seems that the minimum price is always 50M isk though, and that is for a corporation, not an alliance. I didn't test at what memberlevel that is surpassed but it seem to be more then 27.

And the function to calculate the war-bill seems to stabilize around 1B or so (I guess CCP took notice of the protest against the possibility of multibillion ISK decshields)

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Cap Tyrian
Guiding Hand Social Club
#370 - 2012-05-09 22:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cap Tyrian
@CCP SoniClover
EDA's currently only give Gallente BC/BS a Max dps fitting variation while interfering with Gallente ship concept.

What i would like to see at least considered,

ArrowMake them active cap intensive High-slot Modules that require either a turret or Missile hard point to fit,
and bless them with a rely nice futuristic radar dish that starts spinning and emitting some nice wave effects when active.

What also can be considered.
If the damage bonus amount and some ship setups seem OP you can consider stack them in three sizes that only boost up to a certain drone Bandwidth(not drone size), therefor consuming more Capacitor.
And possibly balancing these Modules with PG usage.
As drones have no fitting requirement i find it dangerousness to just throw a damage mod in there. And with three sizes you can scale your radar dish module to look awesome on all ship sizes.

Why?
It seems more balanced and gives a much greater fitting variation to much more ships and hinders some crazy high dps setups.
And although it seems more work and balancing to be done i can assure you it is A: worth it, and B: much much easier to balance


Edit: And their name is a bit confusing.
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#371 - 2012-05-09 22:39:50 UTC
Cap Tyrian wrote:
@CCP SoniClover
EDA's currently only give Gallente BC/BS a Max dps fitting variation while interfering with Gallente ship concept.

What i would like to see at least considered,

ArrowMake them active cap intensive High-slot Modules that require either a turret or Missile hard point to fit,
and bless them with a rely nice futuristic radar dish that starts spinning and emitting some nice wave effects when active.

What also can be considered.
If the damage bonus amount and some ship setups seem OP you can consider stack them in three sizes that only boost up to a certain drone Bandwidth(not drone size), therefor consuming more Capacitor.
And possibly balancing these Modules with PG usage.
As drones have no fitting requirement i find it dangerousness to just throw a damage mod in there. And with three sizes you can scale your radar dish module to look awesome on all ship sizes.

Why?
It seems more balanced and gives a much greater fitting variation to much more ships and hinders some crazy high dps setups.
And although it seems more work and balancing to be done i can assure you it is A: worth it, and B: much much easier to balance


Edit: And their name is a bit confusing.


I like the radar dish idea, and many drone ships happen to have utility highs - this sounds like a reasonable thing to do.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#372 - 2012-05-09 23:17:36 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


the surrender icon should be shown with a ! for both parties when a surrender offer has been made.

if it doesn't I should probably fix itBlink


Yeah it does actually, I see it now. Only it seems to update incredibly slow and erratically. I've tried it several times and it always took a lot of minutes before it was updated.

There are quite a lot of other things not working very well though. I've just put in six bug reports on the wardec system alone. Though not for the slow updating of icon as just mentioned. How do I bug report 'lazy server'? Lol


There's some caching on most of the data, I'll get Tuxford to tell you more about it or look into itBig smile

Also, thank you for taking time to make bug reports, those are super helpful! We're still polishing the ally system so it'll help us see what is needed to do!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#373 - 2012-05-10 06:45:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenga Halaris
Cap Tyrian wrote:
@CCP SoniClover
EDA's currently only give Gallente BC/BS a Max dps fitting variation while interfering with Gallente ship concept.

What i would like to see at least considered,

ArrowMake them active cap intensive High-slot Modules that require either a turret or Missile hard point to fit,
and bless them with a rely nice futuristic radar dish that starts spinning and emitting some nice wave effects when active.

What also can be considered.
If the damage bonus amount and some ship setups seem OP you can consider stack them in three sizes that only boost up to a certain drone Bandwidth(not drone size), therefor consuming more Capacitor.
And possibly balancing these Modules with PG usage.
As drones have no fitting requirement i find it dangerousness to just throw a damage mod in there. And with three sizes you can scale your radar dish module to look awesome on all ship sizes.

Why?
It seems more balanced and gives a much greater fitting variation to much more ships and hinders some crazy high dps setups.
And although it seems more work and balancing to be done i can assure you it is A: worth it, and B: much much easier to balance


Edit: And their name is a bit confusing.



Crazy high-dps setups? I like to see those. If the EDA gets a 22% damage Boost, you could switch the magstabs to EDAs, getting more Drone DPS, but losing Turret DPS.

But since turrets can't be attacked, or travel around, the actual dps you can field over time in a mission or in PvP, is still lower, than turrets would get you.
Also you forgot, that there are implants boosting turrets. 6% all turret dmg and 6% specialized dmg.

Why on earth would you put the EDA in a highslot? It was stated that the EDA stays in lows, to be in line with other dmg mods, which is fine.


Actual possible fit, without EDA on a Domi with dmg imps.:

[Dominix, random]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


Garde II x5

1611 dps
4837 volley

I know, that it is not very practical, but thats what you actually could get now. A nice mission setup will be at 1000- 1100 dps.
bldyannoyed
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#374 - 2012-05-10 07:19:25 UTC
Anyone posting that they want these EDA's to be a high slot mod is only doing so because they want an easy way to up the dps from their perma running armor tank afk-lvl 4 Domi.

Even at the full 22% there is just no way these things are going to be making drone boats OP. As I pointed in another thread, 3 x 22% mods after stacking is a 65% dps boost, or 770 dps with Ogre II's and lvl 5 skills on a damage bonused ship. (750 with garde's)

Given that it's cost you 3 low slots to achieve I would say that even that is barely adequate but as these aren't going to be the last love that drones receive I'm happy to wait.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#375 - 2012-05-10 07:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Well as I see it, either make the EDA a high-slot item, or give it a boost to make it comparable to other damage mods and keep it low slot.

Both seem balanced to me, but the high-slot has my preference because it's makes drones a more different weapon-type then missiles or turrets. And more difference is always the best choice imho.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#376 - 2012-05-10 08:42:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenga Halaris
I wonder why we don't get that equivalent to other dmg- mods and chill around 15%, instead of giving it those 21% and watch what happens?

It's the Testserver, baby!

If something is badly balanced, or in this case drone boats beeing overpowered, you certainly will hear from people.

I mean, even if you give it a 30% bonus, we can't get over a certain amount of dps, because we obviously can't field more than 5 Drones.
Look at any thread on any EVE related forum. Nearly everybody says, that it still is not an improvement, unless you get the full dmg- mod bonus.



Evil


Edit:

The only reason, why the bonus on EDAs is so low atm is, that *puts tinfoil hat on* we will get Drone Control Units for subcaps soon™.
Helen O'Malley
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#377 - 2012-05-10 13:23:44 UTC
Tenga Halaris wrote:
I wonder why we don't get that equivalent to other dmg- mods and chill around 15%, instead of giving it those 21% and watch what happens?

It's the Testserver, baby!

If something is badly balanced, or in this case drone boats beeing overpowered, you certainly will hear from people.

I mean, even if you give it a 30% bonus, we can't get over a certain amount of dps, because we obviously can't field more than 5 Drones.
Look at any thread on any EVE related forum. Nearly everybody says, that it still is not an improvement, unless you get the full dmg- mod bonus.



Evil


Edit:

The only reason, why the bonus on EDAs is so low atm is, that *puts tinfoil hat on* we will get Drone Control Units for subcaps soon™.


I totally agree and quote Tenga!
EDA must be low slot but MUST be equivalent to other damage modifiers (gyro,magstab,heatsink)...
SoniClover or other CCP people... its test server, so difficult to change a parameter and see what happens?
i understand u cannot apply ROF on drones, but there should be something other u may change?

PS: which is the problem with a straight 21% to EDA?
Cap Tyrian
Guiding Hand Social Club
#378 - 2012-05-10 18:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Cap Tyrian


Side note : as much as i want spinning radar dishes, i don't think that will happen, but making them high slot modules is critical.

Ok you asked for it. Time to brake it down for you in more detail.

Fist of all , witch ships could potentially benefit from an EDA regardless of high or low slot.
- Drone Boats
- high bandwidth BS
- maximizing dps on a Ship with drone bandwidth
- EW ships that have drone bandwidth.


Lets get in to facts:
Drone boats
-sub BS/BC: which balanced frig or cruiser sized ship setup should benefit from that ? sacrificing a vital Speed mod for dps, not seeing that happening, and those that potentially could consider sacking a low have much much more highs to spare.

-BC aka Myrmidon and Eos , both Gallente, both with armor tanking bonus and both with highs to spare.


High Bandwidth BS
-Dominix
6xNeutrons 3xMag's, no rigs, Void, Heated
5x Gard II

1479 dps

Mega
7xNeutrons 3xMag's, no rigs, Void, Heated
5x Gard II

1500 dps

Hyperion
8xNeutrons 3xMag's, no rigs, Void, Heated
4x Gard II

1612 dps

___________________________________________________________
Add 1x ROF Rig.......Add 1x Sentury Rig....Add Both .......Add Smart
Domi: 1509................1524...........................1554.................1567
Mega: 1535................1530...........................1565.................1570
Hype: 1651.................1636...........................1675.................1691

This Graph is not absolute and douse not consider ship setups, CPU/PG ,the limitation of overheating, tracking or the megas missile hardpoint. But it demonstrates well how little difference there is. Lets make a second graph impelling 3x EDA's to all fits

no rigs, Void, over heated
3x 15%EDA's (41%)..................20%EDA (57%)
_____________________________________________
Domi: 1664.................................1736
Mega: 1623.................................1671
Hype: 1710..................................1748


Dornes don't need a lock
Drones dont use Cap
Droens are much more mobile then the ship that uses them
Drones are very Versatile, diferent sizes, a choice of damage type, and EW

Sure drones can be shot, a Domi has about 60.000 Drone HP, no real pvp'er brings that up as an argument. You only rely shoot drones of none drone boats.

As i demonstrated a cheap Dominix can surpass an overheating Hyperion. While having all the luxury of drones.
that Dominix gets over 700 DPS with only 105.CPU/3.PG
Moving EDA's to high slot wont solve that fitting benefit, actually it would enable the Dominix to have decent dps , decent tackle and decent tank. But it would not surpass the in your face Mega and Hyperion and would stick to the Gallente traits of being versatile, self sufficient, armor tanking ships .

High slot EDA's would also benefit EW ships that often have a drone bay and some turret/missile hard-points but fitting weapons to them is close to useless. Those ships desperately need all lows, but could benefit from a high slot EDA.

Lastly i propose the EDA to be active Modules that uses some amount of capacitor.
Nano ships and passive shield tankers are tight on capacitor, a small amount of capacitor use would balance these modules out wonderfully and you can add an light effect. Cap Management also ads a moderate level of complexity.


Now show me how your "Opinion" beats my Data.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#379 - 2012-05-10 20:03:49 UTC
Tenga Halaris wrote:
I wonder why we don't get that equivalent to other dmg- mods and chill around 15%, instead of giving it those 21% and watch what happens?

It's the Testserver, baby!

If something is badly balanced, or in this case drone boats beeing overpowered, you certainly will hear from people.

I mean, even if you give it a 30% bonus, we can't get over a certain amount of dps, because we obviously can't field more than 5 Drones.
Look at any thread on any EVE related forum. Nearly everybody says, that it still is not an improvement, unless you get the full dmg- mod bonus.



Evil


Edit:

The only reason, why the bonus on EDAs is so low atm is, that *puts tinfoil hat on* we will get Drone Control Units for subcaps soon™.

I would rather see this

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#380 - 2012-05-10 22:59:20 UTC
I don't know if you noticed but dragging of kill reports to chat to share them is back in!

With help from few people on Sisi today I fixed an issue in the Kill Reports which prevented you to open some of them.

I've also done quite a lot of polish to the ally system UI and war entries so it should be easier to understand and use now.

I made all these changes today so I hope they'll be on Sisi tomorrow for you to test!

I also wanted to thank you who have filed bug reports, they help alot!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis