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Burn Jita unrealistic and inconsistent
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Katja Faith
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-05-09 21:08:25 UTC
OP, you're quite correct, "Burn Jita" was a complete failure and fell flat on it's face.

As predicted.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#22 - 2012-05-09 21:10:09 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So what are you proposing? They shoot NPC corp tornado alts on sight? That's how everyone rolls in highsec, right? NPC alts?

Hm, interesting ...


Or NAP train members.
I was there in the heat of it. It was 70% Test, 15% Goons, 15% FA and other fed alliances.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#23 - 2012-05-09 21:14:43 UTC
Say, you were watching a movie, and there's a scene where hundreds of ships come in from the wilderness area of space. They surround the big mega-market of the story world and start shooting everything that moves. There are cops ships there blowing them up. But they wait until the wilderness guys kill a ship, then they blow them up. And they let the pods escape. Maybe to get another ship and repeat. So the giant gang from the badlands just keep doing it. Meanwhile the kingdom or whatever where this mega-trade center is just does nothing at all.

You might think, "That was a pretty cool action scene, but it made no sense. If the cops didn't like it, wouldn't they have started shooting first. Or killing those pods running away? The writers should have come up with something a little more believable." That's all I'm saying-- just kind of an implausible scenario.
Sebrefa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-05-09 21:17:48 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Does it matter if Jita is the Caldari capital or not? Just saying, any self-respecting nation-state wouldn't let some private alliance have its way within their borders.


They don't. Concord blows them up when they break the rules set out for capsuleers.

This really isn't a tough concept.






this apparently didnt work in Jita when the goons over came the concord ships
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-05-09 21:18:36 UTC
You're having this conceptual problem because you're placing an unjustified importance on both the location and the crime. Jita is a big deal TO CAPSULEERS. Burn Jita is accordingly a big deal TO CAPSULEERS. To CONCORD and the Caladari State it's just business as usual.

"mega trade centre" "ravening hordes": these are your imaginings
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-05-09 21:19:02 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Say, you were watching a movie, and there's a scene where hundreds of ships come in from the wilderness area of space. They surround the big mega-market of the story world and start shooting everything that moves. There are cops ships there blowing them up. But they wait until the wilderness guys kill a ship, then they blow them up. And they let the pods escape. Maybe to get another ship and repeat. So the giant gang from the badlands just keep doing it. Meanwhile the kingdom or whatever where this mega-trade center is just does nothing at all.

You might think, "That was a pretty cool action scene, but it made no sense. If the cops didn't like it, wouldn't they have started shooting first. Or killing those pods running away? The writers should have come up with something a little more believable." That's all I'm saying-- just kind of an implausible scenario.


Rules of engagement are weird. Think of UN peacekeepers and their "don't open fire unless you're fired upon" thing(unless that's just from the movies too). Or well, think of cops. They can't shoot everyone carrying a gun in an area where its legal to carry guns.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-05-09 21:19:49 UTC
Sebrefa wrote:
this apparently didnt work in Jita when the goons over came the concord ships


please share more of your rumour-pablum insights from whatever cluesless ass-end of Eve you call home
Andrey Wartooth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-09 21:20:14 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So what are you proposing? They shoot NPC corp tornado alts on sight? That's how everyone rolls in highsec, right? NPC alts?

Hm, interesting ...


Or NAP train members.
I was there in the heat of it. It was 70% Test, 15% Goons, 15% FA and other fed alliances.


The numbers don't really back up your claims of alliance participation.
AureoBroker
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-05-09 21:22:42 UTC
Even though it is in the backyard of Caldari Prime, no damage was intended or perpetrated by goons or any individual partecipating in Burn Jita to State property.
So no, Caldari should hardly break a sweat. Caldari prime is next door, yes, but it's cynojammed and home to atleast one Leviathan and realistically, a good part of the State Navy, not to talk about being under CONCORD protection, of course.
No, meddling with Capsuleer affairs would've made no sense - Not for the State. Perhaps for the Amarr...

If a "Burn Amarr" event is estabilished, NOW, it'd make full sense for the Amarr navy to drop avatars on it, equipped with the old DD, and lay waste.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#30 - 2012-05-09 21:29:56 UTC
Andrey Wartooth wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So what are you proposing? They shoot NPC corp tornado alts on sight? That's how everyone rolls in highsec, right? NPC alts?

Hm, interesting ...


Or NAP train members.
I was there in the heat of it. It was 70% Test, 15% Goons, 15% FA and other fed alliances.


The numbers don't really back up your claims of alliance participation.


Numbers can be fudged. When I undocked I set up a reds only overview and with just Goons red, I saw maybe 50 pilots. That number tripled when I added Test to the reds list.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-05-09 21:32:40 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Numbers can be fudged. When I undocked I set up a reds only overview and with just Goons red, I saw maybe 50 pilots. That number tripled when I added Test to the reds list.


Could you please share other incidents where your singular anecdotal experience was more significant than collected data.

Thanks.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2012-05-09 21:33:01 UTC
Nephilius wrote:
Yeah, because the core issue here was how Jita and Stormwind are different and yet not. Besides the "capital" reference, which really is irrelevent at its core, Jita and its WoW counterparts are pretty much exactly the same.
I'm not familiar with Wow. Is “Stormwind” and “Ogrimmar” a set of trees at a crossroads? If not, then they're pretty much exactly not the same, because that's all Jita is.

Sebrefa wrote:
this apparently didnt work in Jita when the goons over came the concord ships
It did, since they didn't.
Andrey Wartooth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-05-09 21:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrey Wartooth
Ocih wrote:
Andrey Wartooth wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So what are you proposing? They shoot NPC corp tornado alts on sight? That's how everyone rolls in highsec, right? NPC alts?

Hm, interesting ...


Or NAP train members.
I was there in the heat of it. It was 70% Test, 15% Goons, 15% FA and other fed alliances.


The numbers don't really back up your claims of alliance participation.


Numbers can be fudged. When I undocked I set up a reds only overview and with just Goons red, I saw maybe 50 pilots. That number tripled when I added Test to the reds list.

How do you know that your sample is representative of the entire weekend?

Edit: Also, what does GSF stand to gain by fudging any numbers?
Andrey Wartooth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-05-09 21:36:05 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Numbers can be fudged. When I undocked I set up a reds only overview and with just Goons red, I saw maybe 50 pilots. That number tripled when I added Test to the reds list.


Could you please share other incidents where your singular anecdotal experience was more significant than collected data.

Thanks.


Well you see...Goons. Therefore, always cheating at something.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-05-09 21:40:52 UTC
Andrey Wartooth wrote:
Well you see...Goons. Therefore, always cheating at something.


Ah yes, The Goon Conjecture.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-05-09 21:47:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nephilius wrote:
Yeah, because the core issue here was how Jita and Stormwind are different and yet not. Besides the "capital" reference, which really is irrelevent at its core, Jita and its WoW counterparts are pretty much exactly the same.
I'm not familiar with Wow. Is “Stormwind” and “Ogrimmar” a set of trees at a crossroads? If not, then they're pretty much exactly not the same, because that's all Jita is.



Yes. Ogrimmar and Stormwind are designated by the devs as trade hubs, because they've got unique NPC vendors you can't find anywhere else.
The Jita 4-4 station has pretty much exactly the same facilities as any other Caldari Navy station in Eve, but developed as the central trade hub organically due to...well I dunno, I assume it was its location between a bunch of busy regions and in a system with a load of stations.

If a massive horde of...well Horde decided to perma-camp Stormwind, they'd be able to lock down quite a few features by repeatedly killing the NPC vendors, even more if they camped the other alliance cities. If a massive horde of nullseccers decided to perma-camp Jita, people can just use one of the other trade hubs. If THOSE all got camped, another trade hub would spring up.
Katja Norolyev
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-05-09 22:05:57 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Burn Jita brought many spectators to the system. I'm sure the state made some money off the event through transaction taxes.

Except there were fewer transactions during the burn jita thing, so the state lost money.


Please disclose your access to the financial reports for the Caldari State so we can all make our own assessment of the impact of Burn Jita on the State's overall finances. Thanks.

P.S. Yer ******* dumb.


Jita trade stats from the Devblogs;
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/28130/1/marketorders.png

...how embarrassing. Perhaps you aught to consider having a snack/petting a kitten before posting.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-05-09 22:23:09 UTC
To be fair they can't even deal with the Sansha

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-09 22:24:12 UTC
Katja Norolyev wrote:
Jita trade stats from the Devblogs;
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/28130/1/marketorders.png

...how embarrassing. Perhaps you aught to consider having a snack/petting a kitten before posting.


Hey, thanks for making a completely nonresponsive post, then acting like you "showed me good".
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#40 - 2012-05-09 22:26:28 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Katja Norolyev wrote:
Jita trade stats from the Devblogs;
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/28130/1/marketorders.png

...how embarrassing. Perhaps you aught to consider having a snack/petting a kitten before posting.


Hey, thanks for making a completely nonresponsive post, then acting like you "showed me good".

He really paid attention to what you were saying there... oh wait nope.

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