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Cruise missle question from a returning noob
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Cinc
Apathetic Lamenters of Everything
#1 - 2012-05-08 13:32:35 UTC
Hi there.

I haven't played in about 3 yrs and need some advice.

I was running a couple of L4 missions with a friend. I was in a raven using cruise missiles. We ran into a mission where the largest targets were cruisers. The damage of my missiles was pretty sub par . I'm guessing this issue Is due to explosion velocity and the speed of my targets (and potentially their resists).

I seem to remember cruises being a little better versus targets of that size. Regardless, what can I do to improve missile damage against smaller targets? Are target painters the answer or do I have any other options?

Thx much.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-05-08 13:42:01 UTC
target painters, webs, T2 missiles and rigs

No Worries
General Trajan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-05-08 13:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: General Trajan
rigor rigs and or target painters

EDIT

also on a longer term side note train up guided missile precision skill as well.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-05-08 13:43:45 UTC
basically target painters and rigor rigs.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Cinc
Apathetic Lamenters of Everything
#5 - 2012-05-08 14:29:46 UTC
General Trajan wrote:
rigor rigs and or target painters

EDIT

also on a longer term side note train up guided missile precision skill as well.


Thank you all.

Don't have any free rig slots, but I think I can train one more level of precision.

I'll try painters and splurge on some tech 2 cruise. Webs seem a little to short on range for me.
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-08 15:26:20 UTC
When you are flying a cruise missile ship and you don't have free rig slots for Rigors/Flares, then you know you did something wrong.
Kalli Brixzat
#7 - 2012-05-08 15:38:02 UTC
Cinc wrote:
Hi there.

I haven't played in about 3 yrs and need some advice.

I was running a couple of L4 missions with a friend. I was in a raven using cruise missiles. We ran into a mission where the largest targets were cruisers. The damage of my missiles was pretty sub par . I'm guessing this issue Is due to explosion velocity and the speed of my targets (and potentially their resists).

I seem to remember cruises being a little better versus targets of that size. Regardless, what can I do to improve missile damage against smaller targets? Are target painters the answer or do I have any other options?

Thx much.


You have two options...

1. Rigors and Target Painters. This is a pretty simple thing to do. You should have 1 and perhaps as many as 3 Rigor rigs fitted to any cruise missile BS. Chances are, you went for CCC, which is great for your tank, but doesn't do much for your mission completion time. Target painters (at least 1) are fairly easy to fit onto your Raven, but know that the range of the TP is fairly low without advanced skill training - so this won't help you out beyond 60km or so.

2. Drone training+Drone Link. The VAST majority of L4 missions are BS-heavy. Best case scenario is that you are focusing your direct fire on the BS and BC sized rats. Let your drones do the work on Cruisers/Destroyers/Frigates. Hobgoblins for the frigs and destroyers, Hammerheads for the Cruisers. If you can't carry a full flight of each, then go with more Hobgoblins than Hammerheads. With a little drone-centric training (which won't take more than a week or two), you will see a SIGNIFICANT difference in mission completion times. The link is to increase the range at which you can control your drones - 60km+ is where you want to be.

Note: Precision should be trained to IV, if not V, as soon as humanly possible.
Cinc
Apathetic Lamenters of Everything
#8 - 2012-05-08 15:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cinc
Very informative, kalli. Thank you.

My current rigs are 1x calefaction catalyst and 2x field purgers for my shield tank.

I'll switch one or both of them out and see how that goes. If it hurts my shield tank too badly I can always hand off agro to my buddy then warp back in.
Kalli Brixzat
#9 - 2012-05-08 16:03:22 UTC
Cinc wrote:
Very informative, kalli. Thank you.

My current rigs are 1x calefaction catalyst and 2x field purgers for my shield tank.

I'll switch one or both of them out and see how that goes. If it hurts my shield tank too badly I can always hand off agro to my buddy then warp back in.


Go 1 CCC + 2 Rigors

You should be active tanking your Raven. XL Shield Booster+Boost Amp+(mission specific) Hardeners(2 or 3). Get an AB and 1 TP and you should be golden.

Do not buffer tank your Raven. No, you will not be able to perma-run your booster, but with an XL, you won't need to. If you want to spend a little isk, get a faction Large Shield Booster. You can run that plus your hardeners (no AB) for at least 2 mins. And you'll never really have to do that.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#10 - 2012-05-08 17:31:58 UTC  |  Edited by: mxzf
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Cinc wrote:
Very informative, kalli. Thank you.

My current rigs are 1x calefaction catalyst and 2x field purgers for my shield tank.

I'll switch one or both of them out and see how that goes. If it hurts my shield tank too badly I can always hand off agro to my buddy then warp back in.


Go 1 CCC + 2 Rigors

You should be active tanking your Raven. XL Shield Booster+Boost Amp+(mission specific) Hardeners(2 or 3). Get an AB and 1 TP and you should be golden.

Do not buffer tank your Raven. No, you will not be able to perma-run your booster, but with an XL, you won't need to. If you want to spend a little isk, get a faction Large Shield Booster. You can run that plus your hardeners (no AB) for at least 2 mins. And you'll never really have to do that.


This. Don't try to tank your Raven like you did your Drake, it's not a Drake. XL booster pulsed whenever you need shields should be plenty of tank as long as you don't forget and leave your booster on.

If you're looking for a passive tanked BS, get a Rattlesnake instead, it's the only BS that's really designed to passive tank.
Cinc
Apathetic Lamenters of Everything
#11 - 2012-05-08 18:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cinc
Heh... My drake pilot history must be pretty vivid.

Can't thank you all enough for the help. I'll let you all know how the changes work out.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-05-08 22:26:25 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Cinc wrote:
Very informative, kalli. Thank you.

My current rigs are 1x calefaction catalyst and 2x field purgers for my shield tank.

I'll switch one or both of them out and see how that goes. If it hurts my shield tank too badly I can always hand off agro to my buddy then warp back in.


Go 1 CCC + 2 Rigors

You should be active tanking your Raven. XL Shield Booster+Boost Amp+(mission specific) Hardeners(2 or 3). Get an AB and 1 TP and you should be golden.

Do not buffer tank your Raven. No, you will not be able to perma-run your booster, but with an XL, you won't need to. If you want to spend a little isk, get a faction Large Shield Booster. You can run that plus your hardeners (no AB) for at least 2 mins. And you'll never really have to do that.


This. Don't try to tank your Raven like you did your Drake, it's not a Drake. XL booster pulsed whenever you need shields should be plenty of tank as long as you don't forget and leave your booster on.

If you're looking for a passive tanked BS, get a Rattlesnake instead, it's the only BS that's really designed to passive tank.

Can a scorp navy passive tank?
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#13 - 2012-05-08 22:45:48 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Can a scorp navy passive tank?


nope. shield recharge time is way to slow.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#14 - 2012-05-08 23:49:23 UTC
BS just don't passive tank well, even the Rattler does better with active tank, you only go passive if you need capless tank.

Here's a template of the current FOTM fit for the Raven, I used it extensively, it's very reliable. Aim for something like this, faction/deadspace/meta where you need to, this will fit with Launcher Rigging IV

[Raven, L4 Workhorse]

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

X-Large Shield Booster II
5a Prototype Shield Support I
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

This isn't exactly what I rolled with but it's abit more noob friendly, but still a tight fit. A DG X-Large booster is around 100million and is worth it's weight in gold cause it gives more tank and uses alot less cpu, allowing you to fit a utility in the extra low (ECCM, SEBO), increased tank also allow you to drop the SBA for a target painter.

Also, the next pimp after your DG SB should be a CNR. Extra launcher = win.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-05-09 00:45:10 UTC
waiting for gorki andropov and his troll raven fit...

I should buy an Ishtar.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-05-09 04:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Klymer
Just to clarify, T2 cruise missiles themselves have WORSE damage application to small targets than T1 missiles do as they have a larger explosion radius and slower explosion velocity. Use the T2 launchers but use T1 ammo with them or splurge on the T2 Precision Cruise Missile if you have to shoot a lot of small stuff. However if you find yourself in that situation a lot, find another ship.

There's also the slot 8 missile implants, Zainou 'deadeye' guided missile precision gp-801 through gp-806 that cut 1-6% off explosion radius as well. They are pricey implants but they are worth it in the long run.


Oh and ......

[Guristas Raven, T2 Cruise]

6x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Cruise Missile)
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I

2x Large Shield Extender II
3x Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II

3x Ballistic Control System II
2x Shield Power Relay II

3x Large Core Defense Field Purger I

5x Hobgoblin II
5x Hammerhead II

500dps tank, 500dps damage and cap stable, whats not to love? Twisted
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2012-05-09 04:25:31 UTC
Klymer wrote:
500dps tank, 500dps damage and cap stable, whats not to love? Twisted


No rigors, no painter, crap damage application in general?
Orlacc
#18 - 2012-05-09 04:42:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Orlacc
An oldie but goodie that always works:

[Raven, PvE L4 ]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Heavy Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

You want to really gimp a Raven, go for cap stable.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#19 - 2012-05-09 04:46:20 UTC
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
When you are flying a cruise missile ship and you don't have free rig slots for Rigors/Flares, then you know you did something wrong.


Dunno; the coming back after three years may have something to do with that too.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2012-05-09 04:49:03 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
An oldie but goodie that always works:

[Raven, PvE L4 ]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Heavy Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

You want to really gimp a Raven, go for cap stable.


That's the one. Optionally swap the DC for an expanded cargohold for more cap charges on long missions. Rarely needed though.

Thing is, it's still a Raven. They just aren't great ships these days.
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