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UI Iteration isn't enough - We need to start from scratch
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Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#41 - 2012-05-07 17:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
ok instead of ranting and complaining in the forum, go design a better UI and propose it to us. Show us the wireframes and interaction graphs.

Complaining is not productive unless it is backed up by a proposal.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-05-07 18:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
It is ok to redo the ui in parts like they have been doing for a while already. However it is equally important that when some part is updated, it will be done properly and polished to be as good as it can be before moving to next one. If this will not be the case, we only end up having new problems in another package.

Rewriting entire thing on one go isn't really realistic goal specially if we want to add some functionality to various tools we already have. Plain facelift alone wouldn't make much difference.

I too would like approach with less repetitive clicking, having batch invention and less pop up windows. However this doesn't need to happen all in one go.

Market has received wonderful updates lately. While ago we got new font, ui scaling and improvements to chat member lists. Client and overview performance have been improved greatly. Keyboard shortcuts can nowdays be customized (even there are some lack of preferences still) and our hud/overload functionality were updated very recently. Working rubberband selection in windows is definitely also worth mentioning from long list of things which I forget to mention here.

Only real disappointment so far has been the neocom for the reasons I'm not going to start repeating here. Shortly put - it didn't quite meet the standards I described in 1st paragraph of this post and I keep it still as incomplete update.

All in all - UI has gone huge steps towards correct direction and it will be much better in future as long people just keep posting their feedback and making clear what is important to their daily tasks.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-05-07 18:22:24 UTC
200$ says that when UI overhual finally comes, 100 people on the forums whine that no one asked for the UI to change. followed by many many "if it's not broken don't fix it!"

not that they are right, and 100 of 400,000 players isn't really a lot. but it will feel like no one wants the UI changes about ... I'd say, a month before release.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Calithar Render
Obsidian Armada
#44 - 2012-05-07 18:34:07 UTC
Miilla wrote:
ok instead of ranting and complaining in the forum, go design a better UI and propose it to us. Show us the wireframes and interaction graphs.

Complaining is not productive unless it is backed up by a proposal.


I will, just as soon as I receive my offer letter from CCP.

It's CCP's job to take our feedback and have their UX (or PM, whoever) team provide the "wireframes" and "interaction graphs".

Complaining about complaining is not productive unless it's tempered with common sense.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#45 - 2012-05-07 19:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Seleia O'Sinnor
CCP should go the World of Warcraft way when it comes to the GUI: let the players customize it and create new awesome tools. Just be careful about the public API.

EDIT:
Different strokes for different folks.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#46 - 2012-05-07 19:14:01 UTC
I have to agree. I have two friends that I've tried to get into this game now that have left very quickly simply because of the UI and because of the UI alone. One buddy's email said "D/Ld it and played it for a short bit, but the UI was horrible and couldn't get into it. Might go back and give it a try some other time." He then went off and back to League of Legends and is picking up another MMO now. The other guy said pretty much the same. Both of these guys are big on PVP and MMOs. They would've loved this game if I could've gotten them "into" it. I also tried to play Eve on two prior occasions (once many years back, another time a few years ago).. both times I quit because I couldn't figure out what was going on and the UI was terrible and unresponsive.

I do think that if Eve was able to come up with a completely new UI and one that was much more responsive, the devs would be surprised at how much this game might take off.
Calithar Render
Obsidian Armada
#47 - 2012-05-07 19:19:44 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:
I have to agree. I have two friends that I've tried to get into this game now that have left very quickly simply because of the UI and because of the UI alone. One buddy's email said "D/Ld it and played it for a short bit, but the UI was horrible and couldn't get into it. Might go back and give it a try some other time." He then went off and back to League of Legends and is picking up another MMO now. The other guy said pretty much the same. Both of these guys are big on PVP and MMOs. They would've loved this game if I could've gotten them "into" it. I also tried to play Eve on two prior occasions (once many years back, another time a few years ago).. both times I quit because I couldn't figure out what was going on and the UI was terrible and unresponsive.

I do think that if Eve was able to come up with a completely new UI and one that was much more responsive, the devs would be surprised at how much this game might take off.


Absolutely. You only get one chance to make a first impression. The contrast between the "Sci-Fi, hi-tech" ideas of the game and the OS/2 style user interface should not be ignored. It's a poor first impression.
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#48 - 2012-05-07 19:25:25 UTC
Look, Eve is a spreadsheet game, it is simple numbers and formulas, now, would you prefer an Excel plugin or what you have now?

They really should have made it as a plugin for Word with all the ranting.
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#49 - 2012-05-07 19:29:25 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Look, Eve is a spreadsheet game, it is simple numbers and formulas, now, would you prefer an Excel plugin or what you have now?

They really should have made it as a plugin for Word with all the ranting.


Are you going to provide anything constructive in this thread? Your whining about the UI feedback is silly. The UI needs some work, which is why you see the dev team working so hard at making incremental improvements to it. It's definitely worth discussing whether the UI needs an overhaul rather than just these improvements (which are great, btw).
Calithar Render
Obsidian Armada
#50 - 2012-05-07 19:30:16 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Look, Eve is a spreadsheet game, it is simple numbers and formulas, now, would you prefer an Excel plugin or what you have now?

They really should have made it as a plugin for Word with all the ranting.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#51 - 2012-05-07 19:32:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
Shea Valerien wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Look, Eve is a spreadsheet game, it is simple numbers and formulas, now, would you prefer an Excel plugin or what you have now?

They really should have made it as a plugin for Word with all the ranting.


Are you going to provide anything constructive in this thread? Your whining about the UI feedback is silly. The UI needs some work, which is why you see the dev team working so hard at making incremental improvements to it. It's definitely worth discussing whether the UI needs an overhaul rather than just these improvements (which are great, btw).



Not at all; I am all for proposals for UI, I have workedi n UX so I love good interfaces, in fact I am working on augmented interfaces atm.

What I don't see from you is real proposals, show me the details, not a thread of rants.

If you would post up links to real proposals I could get stuck into them.

Go get a pen and paper or something, and even just draw wireframes, and then interaction graphs connecting the dots so to speak. Show me the money as they say.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#52 - 2012-05-07 20:12:29 UTC
Invention does take a stupid amount of clicks to perform, agreed.

Griefed by the UI.
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#53 - 2012-05-07 20:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
Ana Vyr wrote:
Invention does take a stupid amount of clicks to perform, agreed.

Griefed by the UI.



So you want a "Flatter" interface, with less "modal" interaction.

I always develop UI's as flat as I can, reducing hierarchies, Unfortunately Eve interfaces seem to be designed by 1) accountants or 2) developers.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#54 - 2012-05-07 20:23:11 UTC
Creating a new UI from scratch will take too much time and resources.

Adapt or Die
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#55 - 2012-05-07 20:25:43 UTC
Henry Haphorn wrote:
Creating a new UI from scratch will take too much time and resources.


Well, wasn't part of the purpose of Carbon to make it easier to change the UI and reduce the "entanglement" :)

This is also where the OP can step in, and give a UI proposal, maybe they can have a design a UI competition or something.

I done that a few times, go to the person who wanted a UI, hand them some paper a pen, and ask them to show me what they wanted, and they got exactly that :) Never heard a single rant after :)
Cordran Li
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-05-07 20:55:39 UTC
My brother recently tried to get into EVE and I watched him go through the tutorial stuff. It made me think back to when I started, and wonder how I even got into the game myself. Back then the UI and tutorial were even worse. The only reason I was able to continue playing was because I had friends playing who told me exactly what to do.

EVE definitely needs a new UI. I've been wanting one for years.
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#57 - 2012-05-07 21:00:32 UTC
Cordran Li wrote:
My brother recently tried to get into EVE and I watched him go through the tutorial stuff. It made me think back to when I started, and wonder how I even got into the game myself. Back then the UI and tutorial were even worse. The only reason I was able to continue playing was because I had friends playing who told me exactly what to do.

EVE definitely needs a new UI. I've been wanting one for years.



So get a pen and paper and try better.
Cordran Li
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-05-07 21:03:58 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Cordran Li wrote:
My brother recently tried to get into EVE and I watched him go through the tutorial stuff. It made me think back to when I started, and wonder how I even got into the game myself. Back then the UI and tutorial were even worse. The only reason I was able to continue playing was because I had friends playing who told me exactly what to do.

EVE definitely needs a new UI. I've been wanting one for years.



So get a pen and paper and try better.


NO!
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2012-05-07 21:29:18 UTC
It's really sad when i tried to lure my friends to play and they gone from "OMG, look at those ships, the nebulas!" to "WTH is this, UI from the 90's?" and stopped playing right after.

While i do appreciate the hardwork CCP devs made from iterating the UI, i can honestly say that Eve's UI just doesn't compare at all to it's gameplay and graphics.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Josef Djugashvilis
#60 - 2012-05-07 21:57:51 UTC
For pity's sake do something to improve the drone UI

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