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Double Web speed reduction?
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Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#1 - 2012-05-04 12:43:12 UTC
I know there is a stacking penalty for having more than one of the same type of module active on a player, and I know that a single web gives a 50% speed reduction. How much exactly would two webs reduce speed with the stacking penalty factored in.

I'm experimenting with a ship that sacrifices a great deal of speed in exchange for an extra large tank and extra firepower.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-05-04 12:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
post your fit :)

A T2 web will reduce your speed by 60% a second will reduce whats left by another 60% minus a bit 5-10%. Being exact isnt needed.

Get EFT and put 2 webs in the projected effects tab

No Worries
Aluka 7th
#3 - 2012-05-04 13:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Aluka 7th
First web -60% to speed -> new speed of a target is 0.4x of normal speed.
Second web -51,6% to speed -> new speed is ~0.19x of normal speed with both webs on. (Without penalty it would be 0.16x)
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#4 - 2012-05-04 13:14:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinstar Colton
This is only on paper as I don't quite have the skills to fit this or test this in game yet, but I'm just theory crafting for proof of concept.

Vexor

High
Prototype Cloaking Device I
Heavy Blaster I X4 (Antimatter Ammo)

Medium
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II X2

Low
Damage Control II
1600mm rolled Tungsten Plates
Energized adaptive nano membrane II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Drones
Heavy X2
Medium X2
Light X1

Lock Jammer Drones as backup

Rigs
Medium Armor Pump I X3

Evefit puts this brick at a whopping 17 m/s.

The idea is that I warp to a point of interest where I hope to ambush someone and cloak. When someone comes near, de-cloak and go to town. While I'm effectively immobile, I'm hoping the X2 webs will make them equally as slow. The Scrambler will prevent both warping and MWD to escape, and my massive armor/hull EHP will make burning me down difficult for a similarly sized craft.

If I find myself in a losing fight, release my jammer drones and hope they break my opponent's lock so I can warp out.
This whole build could also be built from Meta0-2 modules for a more disposable budget ship.
I might swap some of my armor rigs for drone durability rigs if I find my drones are getting picked off too quickly and/or ships are getting out of Warp Scrambler range even with the X2 webs on them.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#5 - 2012-05-04 13:20:23 UTC
Not a horribly bad idea. The one big hole in your plan is that you can't warp cloaked, so you're reduced to cloaking in a belt 2-5km away from the warp-in and hoping someone flys up next to you and then sits there for 10s after you uncloak while your sensors recalibrate (targeting delay after dropping cloak). Not the best tactic ever, but I suppose it's worth a try if you want to kill some time.

Also keep in mind that the speed penalty from the cloak is only in effect while you're cloaked (try turning the cloak off in EFT to see your speed with it off, 170m/s). You might also want to trade a gun for a neut to cap out your opponent, it might help.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#6 - 2012-05-04 13:28:39 UTC
I didn't realize the targeting delay after de-cloaking was so long. Is that 10 seconds the base? Or the modified amount based on your cloaking skill? (Since I know the cloaking skill reduces the delay)

I know this craft cant' warp cloaked. It isn't even intended to move while cloaked, which is why I only bothered getting the Cheap cloak with the heavy speed penalty. It was never my intention to warp onto someone as an ambush. My original concept was a way to punish can flippers in high sec. Mine into a can, grab Vexor, sit 2600 meters away from can cloaked. Wait for greedy can flipper to flip/steal it, decloak and nuke 'em without worrying about Concord.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2012-05-04 13:52:40 UTC
Actually, I just double checked, the basic T1 cloak has a default recalibration time of 30s, -10% per level of Cloaking (the 10s number was from CovOps cloaks, the only ones I usually use).

Reading what you're doing, I think your best bet would be to fit a single mining laser and no cloak and 2-3 mining drones (to make it look like you can't even field a full set of drones) and then go 1-2j into lowsec and mine in a belt like a complete noob who doesn't know any better. You're young enough that people will likely underestimate you and think you just flew into the system and saw some nice looking ore and stopped to mine, hopefully luring them into overconfidence.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#8 - 2012-05-04 13:59:22 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Actually, I just double checked, the basic T1 cloak has a default recalibration time of 30s, -10% per level of Cloaking (the 10s number was from CovOps cloaks, the only ones I usually use).

Reading what you're doing, I think your best bet would be to fit a single mining laser and no cloak and 2-3 mining drones (to make it look like you can't even field a full set of drones) and then go 1-2j into lowsec and mine in a belt like a complete noob who doesn't know any better. You're young enough that people will likely underestimate you and think you just flew into the system and saw some nice looking ore and stopped to mine, hopefully luring them into overconfidence.


That is very crafty. Kudos to you! I think I'll go that route given how long the sensor recalibration time is.

The only problem with that is that the cloak would let me pick my fights. If a BS warps in on me, I'm toast.

Thank you for the help.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-05-04 14:13:48 UTC
also any frig with a prop mod and and cruiser with a mwd (so 90% of people that wonder around 0.0/low) will be able to escape if needed

No Worries
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2012-05-04 15:38:51 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Actually, I just double checked, the basic T1 cloak has a default recalibration time of 30s, -10% per level of Cloaking (the 10s number was from CovOps cloaks, the only ones I usually use).

Reading what you're doing, I think your best bet would be to fit a single mining laser and no cloak and 2-3 mining drones (to make it look like you can't even field a full set of drones) and then go 1-2j into lowsec and mine in a belt like a complete noob who doesn't know any better. You're young enough that people will likely underestimate you and think you just flew into the system and saw some nice looking ore and stopped to mine, hopefully luring them into overconfidence.


Improved cloak with max skills is "only" 10 seconds. To pull it off, you'd want to bump whoever you were going after, so you'd have to get a MWD on there -- probably losing a web and downgrading the plate.

Your target list will be fairly limited, but I'd guess you'll get some bites. Fit would look something like this:


[Vexor, surprize buttsecks]
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler I
Stasis Webifier I

Improved Cloaking Device II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Rigs and drones to taste. Cheap as chips too, so you can mess it up a few times.

You won't catch frigates, but if you're lucky you could get a Noctis or a cruiser piloted by someone who doesn't know better than to steal from a can (and probably won't have any idea how to react when you decloak and start bumping him like mad).
Aluka 7th
#11 - 2012-05-04 16:41:01 UTC
Try this rig:

Medium Targeting Systems Stabilizer I
- This ship modification is designed to reduce a ship's targeting delay after de-cloaking at the expense of shields.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#12 - 2012-05-04 16:49:50 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:

Vexor

High
Prototype Cloaking Device I
Heavy Blaster I X4 (Antimatter Ammo)

Medium
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II X2

Low
Damage Control II
1600mm rolled Tungsten Plates
Energized adaptive nano membrane II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Drones
Heavy X2
Medium X2
Light X1

Lock Jammer Drones as backup

Rigs
Medium Armor Pump I X3

Some feedback on your fit:

  • The base sensor recalibration time of the Prototype cloak is 30 seconds. With max skills it can be reduced to 15 seconds, but that is still plenty of time for someone to lay down fire on you, or to get to whatever range they need. I would suggest using an Improved T2 cloak, but that's still 10 seconds when you can't lock anything.
  • Any afterburner ship will still outrun you, and most cruisers will still outrun you (albeit by not too much) even despite your webs. However, if the ship is still in your range after those 10 seconds, it likely wants to be there anyway, because it's its range too.
  • I don't know which type of blasters you're using (electron, ion, or neutron), but unless it's neutron you're likely to be stuck out of range and doing little to no damage.


While the "hi I'm here to kill you" concept of the fit is fine, the Vexor is sort of the wrong ship to try to do that with, as it's not natively cloaky, and the sensor recalibration really screws over the advantage that the scram/doubleweb would give you. I would recommend an Arazu, once you can fly T2 cruisers.

Still, you can fly this and see if you can get any kills with it. Just research kiting ships beforehand, and do not engage any of them. I am reasonably certain I would be able to solo this in my Slicer.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2012-05-04 16:51:31 UTC
Aluka 7th wrote:
Try this rig:

Medium Targeting Systems Stabilizer I
- This ship modification is designed to reduce a ship's targeting delay after de-cloaking at the expense of shields.


By 10% Ugh

So with max skills and two of those babies an improved cloak will allow you to target in... 8.1 seconds. And that's assuming there's no stacking penalty (and I cba to test that).