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Tilting at windmills

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Enuen Ravenseye
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-05-03 11:50:30 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
what do you hisecers want again?


To be left in peace ... so they can continue to bot and RMT without interference.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#82 - 2012-05-03 11:52:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
People need to learn to analyse statistics better. They are not always particularly useful, especially not when you just take them at face value.

Protip: In the Q4 2010 economic statement, CCP revealed that the average is 2.2 accounts / character. So if *every* null sec person had 2.2 accounts, it would still only account for roughly 40% of in game toons.

That still leaves 60% of all characters that aren't associated with Null Sec...

Not saying they're all hi-sec'ers, but still...

You are of course assuming that the distribution of multi-boxers is even between high sec and low/null sec. In low and null there is an increased reliability on alts for scouting, logistics even plexing most rated sites requires multiboxing.

The average number of players all over Eve may own 2.2 accounts, but I very much doubt that is an even distribution. Where would you expect to find the largest concentration of players with only one account?

Also, that would leave >60% of players associated with low sec and null sec. And it is still assuming it is even remotely accurate based purely on a characters location at any one time, I mean how many characters operate mostly in wormholes, but log off in high sec when they are done? How many "live" in high sec, but roam out into and do exploration in low sec?

The only accurate way to have gathered this data would be to force players to select an option when logging in, and perform a complete census. Even a voluntary census would be questionable, since certain psychological traits that predispose people to actually filling in questionaires have a tendency to skew the average profile of the demographic you end up recieving an answer from.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Francisco Bizzaro
#83 - 2012-05-03 12:06:22 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
what do you hisecers want again?

Not empty quoting. This part was missing from the OP.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#84 - 2012-05-03 12:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Corbin Blair wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Yup. Read Soundwaves little stinkbomb on "Inferno and Datacores" Page 7 in GD about moving T2 towards Low and Null (yes, another Goon ISK River like POCO's).


Love that btw, no conflict of interest there AT ALL

Its funny, I actually sat down and watched the TTH interview till the part where Soundwave was all but drooling over the possibility of destroying the T2 market
and I came away with the feeling that he sounds a lot like a Goon.



My Ally Leader and I have been discussing this for quite some time.

A covert GoonAltDevTeam steering game development this way for a few years. But it sounds so tinfoil hat it's almost embarrassing to bring up. That's a GREAT way for them to hide.

Dev PvP ????? Shocked

Since when the **** have goons been involved in faction warfare? Shut the **** up. You idiots need to think before you speak.


I see no mention of FW in your Snippage. Oops. Try again Goonie Alt.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#85 - 2012-05-03 12:11:39 UTC
Krixtal, he was talking about the data cores you brought up. They are being moved to low sec via FW.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Hamshoe
Doomheim
#86 - 2012-05-03 12:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamshoe
Mythrandier wrote:

I'm not wanting to jump to conclusions here, but your post comes across as someone who joined EvE knowing it was a harsh, pvp based game and now wants to make it safe and cosy.


It's become much less so over the years, and with good reason: the pure form was killing the game, to the point that the Devs felt they had to intervene actively.

Gate changes, tactical nerfs, gate guns, jump clones, sovereignty, all have conspired to make the EVEverse smaller and safer. Physical and production chokepoints lead to hydraulic empires and the oft lamented NAPfests. Note how major power shifts of late have been almost entirely "meta" events, the current game mechanics are all about safety and stagnation.

This is essentially a socially exclusive game, trust is the most valuable commodity. Combined with the continual reinforcement of established power, it's a real testament to the perceived potential that this game grows at all.
Josef Djugashvilis
#87 - 2012-05-03 12:28:49 UTC
Enuen Ravenseye wrote:
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
what do you hisecers want again?


To be left in peace ... so they can continue to bot and RMT without interference.


I thought most of those recently caught were not in hi-sec. Am I mistaken in this?

This is not a signature.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#88 - 2012-05-03 12:33:31 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Enuen Ravenseye wrote:
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
what do you hisecers want again?


To be left in peace ... so they can continue to bot and RMT without interference.


I thought most of those recently caught were not in hi-sec. Am I mistaken in this?



You are mistaken. More bots were banned from The Forge than from all of 0.0 IIRC.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#89 - 2012-05-03 12:42:35 UTC
Hamshoe wrote:
Mythrandier wrote:

I'm not wanting to jump to conclusions here, but your post comes across as someone who joined EvE knowing it was a harsh, pvp based game and now wants to make it safe and cosy.


It's become much less so over the years, and with good reason: the pure form was killing the game, to the point that the Devs felt they had to intervene actively.

Gate changes, tactical nerfs, gate guns, jump clones, sovereignty, all have conspired to make the EVEverse smaller and safer. Physical and production chokepoints lead to hydraulic empires and the oft lamented NAPfests. Note how major power shifts of late have been almost entirely "meta" events, the current game mechanics are all about safety and stagnation.

This is essentially a socially exclusive game, trust is the most valuable commodity. Combined with the continual reinforcement of established power, it's a real testament to the perceived potential that this game grows at all.


Well I don’t know enough about nullsec and sov wars to comment on what you say.

I would only hope that regardless the devs keep one thing at heart. Nowhere is ever completely safe. This, imo, is one of the core aspects of EvE. Its something that should be pretected at all costs because if carebears get their way then I think this game is doomed. This is coming from someone who has mostly mined, manufactured and missioned for most of my EvE life. I currently live in WH space however and the move there was the best choice ever for me!

Keep it dangerous, keep it risky. That sense of “here goes” every time you undock should never leave us.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Myz Toyou
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-05-03 12:45:40 UTC
Fannie Maes wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Given that the silent majority of the game...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_silence

In short, you assume that those who do not speak must agree with you. Yet you have provided no evidence other than their silence.



a third of the eve population voted for CSM, I didn't including many others. How big portion of people playing eve are members in an alliance? Not me either!

Who visits fanfest and talk to devs and gm's daily?



There you have it, CCP/CSM listen to those that give the feedback and contribute. The 2/3rd that didnt care about CSM are the ones that either dont care about the game, dont think things need to be changed or the ones that couldnt indentify themselfs with the stuff the several highsec CSM candidates had on their agenda.
All you high sec dwellers do is whine whine whine. Maybe if you would refocus your agenda from: "We want risk free ISK for everyone in epic poportions and no effort at all" (which basicly sums up all you guys cry for on a daily basis) towards something more realistic and something that also goes along with CCPs idea of EVE: Risk vs. Reward. When this happens you maybe can get some more ppl motivated to vote for your candidates.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#91 - 2012-05-03 12:47:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Krixtal, he was talking about the data cores you brought up. They are being moved to low sec via FW.



Yup. Thanks. It's still an idiotic idea...and shows the CCP Devs and Execs are in the Pockets of the Goonies.

Historically in High Sec : bye-bye Moons (to the Goons)....bye-bye Low Sec PI (to the goons POCO Tax)....(maybe)bye-bye T2 Production (into the price gouging pockets of the Goons).

Beyond Obvious is Beyond Obvious.

addendum -- and don't get me started on the Petition Bat-Phone.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-05-03 12:48:57 UTC
Mmmm Hi Sec whine.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626

I'll just leave this here

Kill it with Fire!

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#93 - 2012-05-03 12:49:56 UTC
Aracimia Wolfe wrote:
Mmmm Hi Sec whine.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626

I'll just leave this here



That Thread sure is skeeeered of us.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-05-03 12:55:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
People need to learn to analyse statistics better. They are not always particularly useful, especially not when you just take them at face value.

Protip: In the Q4 2010 economic statement, CCP revealed that the average is 2.2 accounts / character. So if *every* null sec person had 2.2 accounts, it would still only account for roughly 40% of in game toons.

That still leaves 60% of all characters that aren't associated with Null Sec...

Not saying they're all hi-sec'ers, but still...

You are of course assuming that the distribution of multi-boxers is even between high sec and low/null sec. In low and null there is an increased reliability on alts for scouting, logistics even plexing most rated sites requires multiboxing.

The average number of players all over Eve may own 2.2 accounts, but I very much doubt that is an even distribution. Where would you expect to find the largest concentration of players with only one account?

Also, that would leave >60% of players associated with low sec and null sec. And it is still assuming it is even remotely accurate based purely on a characters location at any one time, I mean how many characters operate mostly in wormholes, but log off in high sec when they are done? How many "live" in high sec, but roam out into and do exploration in low sec?

The only accurate way to have gathered this data would be to force players to select an option when logging in, and perform a complete census. Even a voluntary census would be questionable, since certain psychological traits that predispose people to actually filling in questionaires have a tendency to skew the average profile of the demographic you end up recieving an answer from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZD6-vGQms

Dr. E's economy lecture, 4:28 is the breakdown of population...
#1 - I'm assuming nothing, just going from the latest data available (only data available).
#2 - Multiboxers are scattered everywhere - all we know, is that the average is 2.2 / player (according to CCP).
#3 - According to the data released at Fan Fest (of those players with > 5M skillpoints):
6.4% were in Wormholes, 7.6% in Low-Sec, 20.7% in Null sec, and 65.3% in Hi-sec.
#4 - So no, 60% aren't associated with low-sec and null sec... 28.3% were associated there...

So - Hi sec can reasonably be assumed to have the highest resident population - which, while it *is* an assumption, is at least supported by some of the metrics...

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Krixtal, he was talking about the data cores you brought up. They are being moved to low sec via FW.



Yup. Thanks. It's still an idiotic idea...and shows the CCP Devs and Execs are in the Pockets of the Goonies.


Far as I know, Datacores aren't being moved entirely to FW - they are being *added* to the FW LP store... There may be some isk associated with reclaiming them from regular agents (making FW datacores more competitive) but I didn't think they were being removed *entirely*....

could be wrong tho...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Sycho Pathic
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-05-03 12:58:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


Lemmings jump off cliffs all the time; why don't you?


Actually, they don't.
That was fabricated by Walt Disney documentary makers back in the 1950s.
Francisco Bizzaro
#96 - 2012-05-03 13:00:41 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Krixtal, he was talking about the data cores you brought up. They are being moved to low sec via FW.



Yup. Thanks. It's still an idiotic idea...and shows the CCP Devs and Execs are in the Pockets of the Goonies.

Of all the tinfoil hat theories you could come up with ... datacores to FW is a CCP/goon plot? Really?!?

Come on, Malcanis gifted you a much stronger conspiracy angle just a few posts ago. Pay attention.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#97 - 2012-05-03 13:09:52 UTC
Sycho Pathic wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


Lemmings jump off cliffs all the time; why don't you?


Actually, they don't.
That was fabricated by Walt Disney documentary makers back in the 1950s.




:Yodaface:

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-05-03 13:13:26 UTC
Ahhh - found it!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1229956#post1229956

CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#99 - 2012-05-03 13:15:23 UTC

Virtually every 0.0, lo-sec and W-space player will have at least one hi-sec character, often more. I've never met a single exception to this rule, and if such players exist they are extremely rare. Of my 6 characters on 2 accounts, 1 is perma hi-sec and 3 of the others spend 80%+ of their time in hi-sec.

Very very few "hi-sec" focused players have a character outside of hi-sec.

It would be a safe statement to say that for every character in 0.0 there is a character in hi-sec belonging to the same player.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#100 - 2012-05-03 13:18:43 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


It would be a safe statement to say that for every character in 0.0 there is a character in hi-sec belonging to the same player.



That is indeed their Skeleton in a Closet. Come out, come out....wherever you are.....

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882