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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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Anyone else having problems accessing orca hanger from fleet?

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Kamikaze Jihad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2012-05-03 00:28:06 UTC
Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..
Bohoba
#162 - 2012-05-03 05:33:23 UTC
GM Tiny wrote:
Hey guys,

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.



sweet thanks :( but now I made a corp
Hel Xaphod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2012-05-03 06:02:08 UTC
GM Tiny wrote:
Hey guys,

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.


Thank you and the other GMs for stepping up to fill the communication void left by the devs; it is much appreciated. I hope we can get the fleet access back soon. I think we also need, after a week of being ignored, an explanation of how exactly this was allowed to happen in the first place, and what could be done to prevent this sort of unannounced change in the future.
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2012-05-03 06:17:25 UTC
Hel Xaphod wrote:
I think we also need, after a week of being ignored, an explanation of how exactly this was allowed to happen in the first place, and what could be done to prevent this sort of unannounced change in the future.

Ideally, there ANY change that affects a module or ship should be at minimum in the patch notes, and probably announced a week or more ahead of time for feedback.

And that's with no exceptions.. No dev deciding it's not important, no one will notice, and not even it was never used/available to the general public. If it gets changed, it should be listed. Even if it's changing a feature on a Jove ship. That way nothing falls through the cracks, and we hopefully avoid situations like this, and with the Mines a few weeks back, in the future.

Also gives people a good idea exactly what to test on Sisi, ahead of time.. So that even IF this was an intentional change to the Orca, and is not gonna be reversed, there would have still been people on Sisi testing and finding the bugs with it being used by a NPC Player, and the like.
Drab Cane
Carbenadium Industries
#165 - 2012-05-03 06:46:56 UTC
There was a video posted by CCP from the last Eve-Fest, showing a lecture on the rewrite of the CrimeWatch system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3jK-XZ2KnM

This is the set of functions that determines when a 'crime' has been committed, and what that response should be. It encapsulates not only security rating and ganking, but also can-flipping, etc. Fleet and corp rights are right in the thick of all that.

The lecture was about the reasons for the complete rewrite of the CrimeWatch system, and how they were going to go about it. The initial work on the rewrite was supposed to come out with Escalation.

So either 1) their changes broke the previous Orca behavour unintentionally, or 2) they don't have the time/priorities to make fleet access to the corp folders work at this time, so they intentionally dropped fleet access. Greyscale's initial answer sounds like option two - the Orca is now 'working as intended' .

With Orca corp hanger access tied to player corp rights, that should make corp hangar access impossible while the pilot is in an NPC corp.

We need CCP to get fleet access working as part of the Inferno release, at the lastest. Please!
Zmey Crafter
Tiny Crazy Corp
#166 - 2012-05-03 07:03:21 UTC
Dark Angelis wrote:
GM Tiny wrote:
Hey guys,

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.


I'll believe it when I see it....

Exactly the same. Attention
Captian Meths
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#167 - 2012-05-03 09:30:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Captian Meths
Don't hold your breath, many bugs that became feature got won this way by CCP - no consultation, no heads up, no fook-all, just implement and send the cry babies to go whine in the forums, they have your subscription anyway so could not really give a shite. Suppose the next step is a new toon to go help the can flippers and pirates until tritanium cost more than zydrine and everyone fly Ibis' as no-one can afford anything else - haha its a joke man. CCP is killing the game's reputation and once you go down that road the end is unavoidable - soon it will end up on the sad dead MMO heap with all the other MMO's that just could not be saved by adequate investor management and people that generally care more about the customer than the desires and needs of some pimple assed disgruntled dev - hard lesson to learn but apparently history repeats itself -LOL. Hope another game similar to EVE comes along before my EVE hit the 'who gives a sh1t' pile.

Long live the Ibis o/
KorStar
Dirty Fingers Mining Coproration
#168 - 2012-05-03 10:31:16 UTC
Kamikaze Jihad wrote:
Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..


This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed. Ugh

Regards,
KorStar
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#169 - 2012-05-03 10:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
GM Tiny wrote:
Hey guys,

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.

I just want to say thanks for looking into the possibility of thinking about changes, that revert the evil that has occurred, sometime in the future.

Hopefully this means that something will happen soonish, which will allow us to continue as before. To be able to put ore in to the Orca again, somehow, would be great.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#170 - 2012-05-03 10:49:45 UTC
KorStar wrote:
Kamikaze Jihad wrote:
Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..


This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed. Ugh

Regards,
KorStar
Why would a fleet hanger have divisions? That doesn't make much sense. Do you mean a division for each wing and each squad?
KorStar
Dirty Fingers Mining Coproration
#171 - 2012-05-03 11:39:40 UTC
non judgement wrote:
KorStar wrote:
Kamikaze Jihad wrote:
Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..


This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed. Ugh

Regards,
KorStar
Why would a fleet hanger have divisions? That doesn't make much sense. Do you mean a division for each wing and each squad?


Corp hangers have divisions, I have fleet members dump ore into specific divisions to keep everything separate for mining operations. For combat operations, much the same process. If they want to implement fleet hangers, they simply need to keep the same amount of divisions. It doesnt have to make sense to you but is a method that many of us orca pilots use for organization.

Regards,
KorStar
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#172 - 2012-05-03 12:49:30 UTC
GM Tiny wrote:
After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.
The revert is now pending deployment.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#173 - 2012-05-03 13:11:41 UTC
KorStar wrote:
non judgement wrote:
KorStar wrote:
Kamikaze Jihad wrote:
Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..


This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed. Ugh

Regards,
KorStar
Why would a fleet hanger have divisions? That doesn't make much sense. Do you mean a division for each wing and each squad?


Corp hangers have divisions, I have fleet members dump ore into specific divisions to keep everything separate for mining operations. For combat operations, much the same process. If they want to implement fleet hangers, they simply need to keep the same amount of divisions. It doesnt have to make sense to you but is a method that many of us orca pilots use for organization.

Regards,
KorStar
I mean that divisions in a corp hanger are allowed access via directors and ceo giving you access. Do you want the same kind of control for these fleet divisions? I thought the idea of having divisions strange in a fleet hanger because how would you allow access to each part or just a free for all?

On the note of your orca pilot keeping things separate... when does he dock? when the corp hanger is full or the cargobay and ore bay are full as well? Do they have containers marked div1-div7 in their cargobay? :P
KorStar
Dirty Fingers Mining Coproration
#174 - 2012-05-03 13:30:49 UTC
non judgement wrote:
KorStar wrote:
non judgement wrote:
KorStar wrote:
Kamikaze Jihad wrote:
Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..


This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed. Ugh

Regards,
KorStar
Why would a fleet hanger have divisions? That doesn't make much sense. Do you mean a division for each wing and each squad?


Corp hangers have divisions, I have fleet members dump ore into specific divisions to keep everything separate for mining operations. For combat operations, much the same process. If they want to implement fleet hangers, they simply need to keep the same amount of divisions. It doesnt have to make sense to you but is a method that many of us orca pilots use for organization.

Regards,
KorStar
I mean that divisions in a corp hanger are allowed access via directors and ceo giving you access. Do you want the same kind of control for these fleet divisions? I thought the idea of having divisions strange in a fleet hanger because how would you allow access to each part or just a free for all?

On the note of your orca pilot keeping things separate... when does he dock? when the corp hanger is full or the cargobay and ore bay are full as well? Do they have containers marked div1-div7 in their cargobay? :P



There was no permissions on the divisions of corp hangers of the orca to prevent dropping items into the separate divisions so I would expect the same if they change corporate hangers to fleet hangers. The divisions alone allow for separation of ore and material (I dont offer orca services for just mining Evil) For mining, yes, all the holds gets filled up, thats silly to do or even suggest otherwise, to paint the picture even clearer for you to understand Idea is the divisions allow me to ensure each pilot that does dump ore in, to be properly compensated either in isk or refined minerals for a fee by being able to tally and account for every unit/item that is deposited. Simply going by the fleet loot history is asking to be ripped off and I shouldnt need to explain the how's and why's there Roll. I run a business, the business depends on corporate hangers with their divisions and other players being allowed to dump items into those divisions. The only other option is jet canning which takes away revenue from my business as part of the fees I charge is for miners not having to worry about can flippers, outright theft etc Sad.

Regards,
KorStar
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#175 - 2012-05-03 13:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
KorStar wrote:
There was no permissions on the divisions of corp hangers of the orca to prevent dropping items into the separate divisions so I would expect the same if they change corporate hangers to fleet hangers. The divisions alone allow for separation of ore and material (I dont offer orca services for just mining Evil) For mining, yes, all the holds gets filled up, thats silly to do or even suggest otherwise, to paint the picture even clearer for you to understand Idea is the divisions allow me to ensure each pilot that does dump ore in, to be properly compensated either in isk or refined minerals for a fee by being able to tally and account for every unit/item that is deposited. Simply going by the fleet loot history is asking to be ripped off and I shouldnt need to explain the how's and why's there Roll. I run a business, the business depends on corporate hangers with their divisions and other players being allowed to dump items into those divisions. The only other option is jet canning which takes away revenue from my business as part of the fees I charge is for miners not having to worry about can flippers, outright theft etc Sad.

Regards,
KorStar

You almost completely ignored what I asked.

I wasn't asking what you use the divisions for. I asked how would you go about controlling who has access to the different divisions. If I was to guess from your answer I'd say you don't want control of access to it or anything like that. You just want a way to keep things from different pilots in separate areas so it is easier for you to keep track of. Was that so hard to say?

40,000 is a small part of the Orca's total capacity. Pity you can't put containers in the ore bay.
KorStar
Dirty Fingers Mining Coproration
#176 - 2012-05-03 14:17:04 UTC
non judgement wrote:
KorStar wrote:
There was no permissions on the divisions of corp hangers of the orca to prevent dropping items into the separate divisions so I would expect the same if they change corporate hangers to fleet hangers. The divisions alone allow for separation of ore and material (I dont offer orca services for just mining Evil) For mining, yes, all the holds gets filled up, thats silly to do or even suggest otherwise, to paint the picture even clearer for you to understand Idea is the divisions allow me to ensure each pilot that does dump ore in, to be properly compensated either in isk or refined minerals for a fee by being able to tally and account for every unit/item that is deposited. Simply going by the fleet loot history is asking to be ripped off and I shouldnt need to explain the how's and why's there Roll. I run a business, the business depends on corporate hangers with their divisions and other players being allowed to dump items into those divisions. The only other option is jet canning which takes away revenue from my business as part of the fees I charge is for miners not having to worry about can flippers, outright theft etc Sad.

Regards,
KorStar

You almost completely ignored what I asked.

I wasn't asking what you use the divisions for. I asked how would you go about controlling who has access to the different divisions. If I was to guess from your answer I'd say you don't want control of access to it or anything like that. You just want a way to keep things from different pilots in separate areas so it is easier for you to keep track of. Was that so hard to say?

"There was no permissions on the divisions of corp hangers of the orca to prevent dropping items into the separate divisions so I would expect the same if they change corporate hangers to fleet hangers." Those were the only permissions I care about getting back asap. If I were to make a suggestion, I think if they moved to fleet hangers, Take, View and Put should each be configurable by division/tab down to the pilot level. IE division/tab 1 could be Take View and Put for the whole fleet, division/tab 2 could be Take View and Put for only squad 1, division/tab 3 could be Put for the whole fleet, division/tab 4 could be View and Put for only Pilot non judgement, and so on.

Quote:

Also you are only talking about divisions in the corp hanger. How do you do the same with ore bay and normal cargo bay? :P 40,000 is a small part of the Orca's total capacity. Pity you can't put containers in the ore bay.

By the time the ore is shifted from the divisions, I already added those units to that pilots sheet so I dont need containers for organization beyond the corporate hanger divisions but the little bit of extra room containers offer would be nice in the ore hold but CCP has made it clear that wont happen which is fine by me. I could draw pictures and flow charts but I truely hope you get the point by now... Lol

Regards,
KorStar
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2012-05-03 16:36:26 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
GM Tiny wrote:
After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.
The revert is now pending deployment.

Thankyou very much :)

Is this a permanent revert, or is the Corp/Fleet hanger idea going to be looked at/implemented in the (near)future ? I know I posted my ideas for how to do it eariler in the thread, but that has probably been lost in everything else that has happened.

It would be nice to have a discussion on it, see what the plans are, and ideally, come up with a plan that everyone is happy with :)
CCP GingerDude
#178 - 2012-05-03 17:15:02 UTC
Sentinel Smith wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
GM Tiny wrote:
After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.
The revert is now pending deployment.

Thankyou very much :)

Is this a permanent revert, or is the Corp/Fleet hanger idea going to be looked at/implemented in the (near)future ? I know I posted my ideas for how to do it eariler in the thread, but that has probably been lost in everything else that has happened.

It would be nice to have a discussion on it, see what the plans are, and ideally, come up with a plan that everyone is happy with :)



We pretty much all want the corp hangar in ships to go away, or at least remove the ability for fleet members to access it since that thing just doesn't jive with the access control system for corp hangars. The general consensus seems to be that fleet hangars is the way forward for at least the Orca, but Grayscale is still mulling over the details of how/who and when to do it.

So, consider this revert permanent and the fleet hangar idea being on the drawing board.

Senior Server Programmer
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2012-05-03 17:20:17 UTC
CCP GingerDude wrote:
We pretty much all want the corp hangar in ships to go away, or at least remove the ability for fleet members to access it since that thing just doesn't jive with the access control system for corp hangars. The general consensus seems to be that fleet hangars is the way forward for at least the Orca, but Grayscale is still mulling over the details of how/who and when to do it.

So, consider this revert permanent and the fleet hangar idea being on the drawing board.

Thanks for the details, sound good to me :)
Tonksai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2012-05-03 18:55:03 UTC
CCP GingerDude wrote:
Sentinel Smith wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
GM Tiny wrote:
After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.
The revert is now pending deployment.

Thankyou very much :)

Is this a permanent revert, or is the Corp/Fleet hanger idea going to be looked at/implemented in the (near)future ? I know I posted my ideas for how to do it eariler in the thread, but that has probably been lost in everything else that has happened.

It would be nice to have a discussion on it, see what the plans are, and ideally, come up with a plan that everyone is happy with :)



We pretty much all want the corp hangar in ships to go away, or at least remove the ability for fleet members to access it since that thing just doesn't jive with the access control system for corp hangars. The general consensus seems to be that fleet hangars is the way forward for at least the Orca, but Grayscale is still mulling over the details of how/who and when to do it.

So, consider this revert permanent and the fleet hangar idea being on the drawing board.


thanks, this is the post most have been waiting patiently for.

However I am in no doubt some people wont let the fact the communication was as bad as it was go...