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Re-ballance Clone Costs?
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Adunh Slavy
#41 - 2012-04-17 15:53:11 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Marlona Sky + Adunh Slavy
Because eve really likes to make you feel loss, when you feel loss it means you are invested emotionally. and when you are emotionally invested you keep playing to go find and kill that ******. or you sit and cry and never pick up the game again. the choice is yours, but you know when you do pod that guy, its a validating feeling, because its costing them.



I'm into my seventh year on Eve, I'm already invested, thank you for your concern with regards to my emotional state.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-04-17 16:52:48 UTC
Torothanax wrote:
Just this one Kusum, I'll humor you with a reply. You troll me and you go on ignore.

Explain to me exactly what happens when you get podded without an updated clone. I don't think you really understand the mechanics and you are showing your ignorance.

It's not a real option to fly with an inadequate clone. It defeats the entire purpose of the skill training system to lose sp and go backward. The only reason you have to actually update your clone manually is to give a feel of realism, loss, and a sense of responsibility for one's self. It's for immersion. It's also a "duh" check to weed out people who probably shouldn't play eve. If it were an option we'd be able to delete skills.

Eve isn't just about risk, it's about choice. Sand box ring a bell? I should be able to choose what I risk. I don't have to fly expensive ships. It's my option. I don't have to fit implants. It's my option. I don't have to go into null space or even low sec. It's my option. SP isn't optional though, it's required to do anything in game. It's earned over time. It's a reward for sticking around. Everyone who plays for long enough will get to where I am, so why punish everyone for playing the game?

You lose skillpoints from a few randomly selected skills equal to a percentage of the difference between your current clone's sp limit and how many sp you actualy have.
Torothanax
#43 - 2012-04-18 00:48:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Torothanax
Astroniomix wrote:
You lose skillpoints from a few randomly selected skills equal to a percentage of the difference between your current clone's sp limit and how many sp you actualy have.
This is what I'm talking about. People posting here don't even know what happens when your clone isn't up to date and you get podded. So much ignorance behind the "he's got more SP then me so he deserves bad stuff".
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-04-18 00:54:02 UTC
I agree that it is starting to get expensive. In null, I must watch when and how I pvp, really limits how much I am willing to risk simply because of how I earn isk. I can fly my implant free clone, I can fly cheap ships. but it is a tossup, cheap and useless for the SP I have to replace many clones, or fly actual end game style ships. I choose latter, but must be cautious because of it.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Torothanax
#45 - 2012-05-01 11:44:05 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
I agree that it is starting to get expensive. In null, I must watch when and how I pvp, really limits how much I am willing to risk simply because of how I earn isk. I can fly my implant free clone, I can fly cheap ships. but it is a tossup, cheap and useless for the SP I have to replace many clones, or fly actual end game style ships. I choose latter, but must be cautious because of it.
Exactly.
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#46 - 2012-05-01 12:45:11 UTC
I think all clones should cost the same. Just like switching stations and Modify orders.

Make clones cost 1million isk . They should cover the sp as long as you have one.

Clones should not be a isk sink.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#47 - 2012-05-01 15:17:00 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

The only solution to this is to remove clone upgrades all together.



Well I'm not sure it needs a solution and I do think there are better solutions. Older characters get a clear advantage in combat. But lets be precise on what that advantage is:

It is the option to have more skills. Its not that they have more skills. Its that they tend to have the option to have more skills.

Right now I am considering whether I want to train capitals on my main or on an alt. There are pros and cons of each but one factor is that i do more pvp on my main and the cost of clone will go up for him. I'm not saying its a big factor but I at least thought about it.

And again lossing your clone actually doesn't cost anything. It is replacing your clone with one that will save your skill points that costs isk. I'm not saying that people don't almost always choose to pay this. They do. But don't ignore the fact that it is a choice.

You pay isk so you keep the skill points that make the clone upgrade cost more. Now currently the system of how you lose skill points for getting podded is fairly arbitrary. But what if they changed that?

What if you could choose where you would lose your skill points if you were podded without an upgraded clone. You could choose to lose those mining skillpoints or whatever and then your clone wouldn't cost so much. I'm not saying people would do that but who knows.

What if you could decide what skillpoints you would lose and you would actually get back 1/2 or 2/3s of them to assign where you want?

I am not in favor of removing choices from the game. The problem isn't so much that the cost of the clones is high. Its actually that the cost of the clones is so low that we don't even recognize it as a choice to upgrade the clone.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#48 - 2012-05-01 15:48:09 UTC
Maybe I missed it, but I think I have a good solution for this.

Make the clone upgrades like buying a skillbook.

Clones themselves are free, but you must purchase upgrades to higher levels. Each level of clone upgrading should have a one time cost, each time becoming more expensive.

The higher level books should cost billions.

And really, the penalty for forgetting to upgrade your clone, the way it is now? Ridiculous.
Only people who actually forgot, often for reasons they never planned, will ever be affected by this. Noone is dumb enough to say let's take a risk like that with years of training at stake.

You cost someone years of training, how happy and likely are they going to be with continuing to play EVE? Let's not forget this will impact other players, especially if they supported a corporation in a manner that is no longer possible.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#49 - 2012-05-01 15:54:38 UTC
Well since we already have the skill point alocation function in the game, why not use that to resolve the issue..

Clones cant train skills say without the setting of "original" Just the highest skilled clone.

When you install a clone you get to buy the number of skill points in it, and ofc you own max say minus 10%.

You can not train and inject new skills, so it would basically be a lighter version of your main clone.

Yes you would need to spend a while setting up your skills, but a simple auto fill feature would make this a non issue.
Auto fill by skill group would be optimal.

The prices should not only stay, they should be hiked up to about twice the price. So old players would be more willing to make light versions and even loose more in per SP death then everyone else.. Would be healthy for pvp and for distribution of wealth to the rest of the playerbase and a nice considerable isk sink..

Dunno how coding heavy, but its the solution type that really would motivate old carebears to risk a lot more..
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#50 - 2012-05-01 16:22:14 UTC
how about this.

I believe that we should remove skillbooks.Instead use memory cards. Levels of memory cards is a time factor you have played the game.

You should be able to sell memory cards on the market. You want a racial BS IV buy it. I think thats uber. The longer you play the more memory credits you earn and you can purchase memory cards.

An Account has three slots and at any time you can move those memory cards around. If you want to pvp in a clone that worth 3mill isk cool if you want a capital ship move your memory cards to that clone. Therefore you only have one char to an account no more alts. Those are actual clones. Jump clones are the same. Your memory cards are downloaded to that clone.

So to clearify. You start with three clones you play will all your memory cards assorted between your three clones. When you get podded ,your memory cards are downloaded and backed up all the time, are replaced based on your clone grade. Jump clones are bodies you can download your memory cards to..
Callic Veratar
#51 - 2012-05-01 18:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Callic Veratar
Simple idea to decrease a faucet without losing a sink:

Subtract the clone cost from insurance with a minimum of 0. If I lose a ship insured for 200M with a clone worth 50M, I get 150M back. If I lose my pod as well, I lose SP if I'm below the clone's SP limit. If I lose a ship insured for 2M with a clone worth 10M, I get nothing for insurance.

Then we can add something fun like: if you lose a ship in a manner that does not pay out insurance, CONCORD will not cover the difference.
HARD STEEL
Caldari Capital Construction Company
#52 - 2012-05-01 19:39:32 UTC
let the market decide. player owned stations/pos modules that can do this and charge at whatever rate they decide

ONLY THE HARD.  ONLY THE STRONG.
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