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CCP is the husband. We are its wife. Our marriage just hit the 9 year mark.
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Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#1 - 2011-09-30 15:58:52 UTC
So yeah i posted this before but people made it get locked so i won't even link anything, to make sure it doesn't get started again. Apparently the message got through to CCP (and i bet many on their office had a big laugh over this) but i think more people should be made aware (and laugh too, lol)


Basically, from the outsider point of view, on this relationship we have in EVE Online, CCP has become the husband and the community has become the wife. Know why the problems lately? Simple... our marriage just hit the 9 year old mark (you other divorced dudes know what that means).

9 years ago everything CCP did was, to us, a bunch of "oooohhs" and "aaaahs" and "Oh! We love you for that!". Now? The marriage went cold...

Nothing CCP does surprises us anymore.. they don't give us roses anymore.. they don't take us places.. Everything they do nowadays is promises promises promises... and they deliver nuthin. They just keep living in this world of theirs, with their own dreams about our future and we can no loger believe in them. They keep coming with these crazy ideas about what it is that we would like them to do (they still want to make us happy), they're failing miserably at it and we resent them for it.

And to make matter worse, now CCP has not one, but two affairs!!! (DUST, WoD). They hurt us.... they hurt us.. And the truth is, when somebody hurts us we want them to pay! So our version of getting them to pay is that we get "bitter" and unforgiving "we're not going to forgive you!".

The problem is, the only one who hurts is the one who doesn't want to forgive. Unforgiveness is like taking poison hoping the other guy will die Big smile


And since we don't forgive anything they do, CCP now is growing more and more frustrated with us because no matter what they seem to do, we think its wrong and we don't forgive them for even proposing it. And worse, we just keep adding to the list of bad things they do.. So now, CCP won't even talk to us any longer. We need to learn how to forgive!


But for so many of us forgiveness is hard "Sobbing :Ooh i can't do it .. they hurt me its so hard!" because you don't understand what forgiveness is! (And stay with me, i'm borrowing things from a guy who some might know).

  • Forgiveness is an Act. It is NOT an EMOTION. You might feel the pain of what CCP did to you to the day you die. It has NOTHING to do with forgiveness
  • Forgiveness is NOT an Erasure of Your MEMORY. You might remember what CCP did to you, to the day you die.

    • Forgiveness is when you say "I forgive you, i will never use it against you in the future. I will never speak of it again to you, or to anyone else.". Forgiveness has more to do with your tongue (or in this case, your fingers) than your head, or your heart. If you're still talking it through, you haven forgiven. You need to hush.. You need to let it go. That's forgiveness. That's how we get them to feel safe about talking and sharing with us again.

    Now, naturally, before we even propose forgiveness.. before we even begin to consider never ever bringing back CCP's old wrongdoings, they need to commit themselves to this and to acknowlodge the error of their ways, and the reason why we got so hurt by them to begin with. Only then will they be able to look at it and say "I understand why i hurt you, and that was not my intention. I promise never to do it again".




    So. Hoping that all of that got through to both parties, i want CCP and EVE's Community (us) to stand here (starts playing cheesy music). And i want you to turn to each other.. "Sobbing: OP you said that it wouldn't be anything emotional!!!!". Don't worry... it will be alright... Now i will tell you both what to say. This is strong stuff:


    *Plays cheesy guitar music*


    For CCP, looking at the community.. i want you to repeat this. Looking at your players from your heart i want you to say this:

    Quote:
    Honey, We're sorry, for not always being the kind of developers we should be to you. For not giving you the attention you deserve. For being too caught up in my own world instead of our world. For promising too much, and not giving enough. For not loving you like we should. Please forgive us.. With your love, your support, your patience and your understanding we will strive to be the kind of developers you deserve us to be.



    Now gir.... fellow players its your turn.. i want you to hold CCP's hand and i want you to say this:

    Quote:
    Honey, We're sorry. For not always being the kind of community we should be to you. For not always appreciating all that you do.. For not always being the supporters we need to be. For not always believing in your hopes and dreams. For not respecting you like we should. Please forgive us. With your love, your understanding, and your attention, we will strive to be the kind of community you need us to be




    Didn't that feel good?Smile "Sobbing: I don't understand he said he'd make us laugh and he made us cryyyy!!!! I'm so confuuused!!"

    The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
    Renan Ruivo
    Forcas armadas
    Brave Collective
    #2 - 2011-09-30 16:05:22 UTC
    Now i'm double posting because i ran out of text space.. never though that'd happen LOL...


    Jokes aside, (and include me in the player's quote as well since i had my fair share of senseless CCP bashing) i hope both sides understand that mistakes have been made, and that yes the marriage analogy works well for our case because after all, it has been 9 years we're together and so problems ought to happen when we try to keep pretending that whatever it is that is happening is the other one's fault, instead of taking a deep look inside and discovering what it is that we're doing that is making the other one suffer.

    Yes, CCP has done a lot wrong.. they've promised content they never delivered, they ignored us when we pointed out things we saw as being wrong and they did things we did not like, so even though it was wrong, all that they have done over the last 9 years was with their best wishes to make this work and make us happy with EVE. They never intended for us to be so rallied up like we are, so they've done even more mistakes in shutting down and stopping communicating with us and that behaviour has been entirely our fault.

    Yes, WE have done wrong too in growing bitter, angry and unforgiving in that no matter what they did.. we bashed them and we discouraged them and we criticized them, not giving enough praise when they did something right. Instead just going on and saying (Heh.. this is what you should be doing in the first place so keep trying not to suck). So they've shut down, because it started to seem that no matter what they did or said that we would never be pleased and we would never be that loving girl we were 9 years ago. What did they do? They start going behind the curtain doing stuff away from our eyes because now they weren't looking for our approval, they are simply hiding from our ever-disapproving gaze.

    No wonder they now want to try and start over with new, young and more optimistic girl... ahem.. communities in DUST 514 and World of Darkness. We have sucked the life out of them.

    The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
    Slade Trillgon
    Brutor Force Federated
    #3 - 2011-09-30 16:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
    :In stunned disbelief

    I have read something in GD that makes me look at my current relationship and think I have a long road ahead of me, some forgivness I need to work on and some communication that needs improving.


    Slade
    Razin
    The Scope
    #4 - 2011-09-30 16:18:27 UTC
    I don't know dude, I think a "pusher-user" analogy would make a much better fit.
    Cipher Jones
    The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
    #5 - 2011-09-30 16:21:38 UTC
    No.
    The only thing Eve and marriage have in common is that more people around here should try them before posting about them.

    internet spaceships

    are serious business sir.

    and don't forget it
    Renan Ruivo
    Forcas armadas
    Brave Collective
    #6 - 2011-09-30 16:23:08 UTC
    Razin wrote:
    I don't know dude, I think a "pusher-user" analogy would make a much better fit.


    Doesn't need to. Pusher-user analogy does not have a happy ending.

    The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
    Akita T
    Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
    #7 - 2011-09-30 16:37:57 UTC
    Mild disbelief : You're not really talking about forgiving, you're talking either about repressing or forgetting. Forgiving does not mean you stop talking about it (quite the opposite), it just means you talk about it with no resentment, but as cautionary tale (or just a tale).

    Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
    Renan Ruivo
    Forcas armadas
    Brave Collective
    #8 - 2011-09-30 16:55:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
    Akita T wrote:
    Mild disbelief : You're not really talking about forgiving, you're talking either about repressing or forgetting. Forgiving does not mean you stop talking about it (quite the opposite), it just means you talk about it with no resentment, but as cautionary tale (or just a tale).


    No, you're quite right. If its still worth talking about, its not worth forgiving now is it? Smile I'm talking about forgiving that which deserves to be forgiven. For that, CCP must do the work not you.

    CCP had ships propulsion unballanced. That was a mistake... they fixed it (nano nerf) We forgave them in the way that we no longer mention it (with resentment, like you put it) to CCP when talking about other matters.


    Ain't nothing that is being criticized about CCP at the moment is worth forgiving, for now. They need to acknowlodge whats wrong and they need to work on fixing it. So far it seems that they've recognized some of what is wrong (but not all) and are apparently trying to fix it. What must be done, is that we have to make them know that "If you REALLY fix it, we will forgive you".

    The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
    Long John Silver
    Doomheim
    #9 - 2011-09-30 17:17:47 UTC
    Straight

    This thread is FAR too intense. As a dude who's been married happily for over 20 years, my advice is to chill a bit more.

    **Long John Silver **| Pirate Alt and Forum Troll.
    Abrazzar
    Vardaugas Family
    #10 - 2011-09-30 17:23:11 UTC
    So I suppose this is the cheese for all the wine?

    Sovereignty and Population

    New Mining Mechanics
    mkint
    #11 - 2011-09-30 17:55:07 UTC
    Sure... all they need to do is stop seeing their mistresses, which is all that most of us wanted in the first place (and some reasonable, believable assurances that they aren't going to be pulling the same old crap over again... the first step in forgiveness is an apology, outside of the "whoops, we've been caught" we haven't really seen one.)

    Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
    trexinatux
    Doomheim
    #12 - 2011-09-30 18:01:57 UTC
    You consider your relationship with Eve a marriage? Duder, you need a break from the game, seriously.

    Helpless people on subway trains...
    Cydori
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #13 - 2011-09-30 18:03:13 UTC
    Then CCP has been cheating on us with WoD. Typical.
    Renan Ruivo
    Forcas armadas
    Brave Collective
    #14 - 2011-09-30 18:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
    trexinatux wrote:
    You consider your relationship with Eve a marriage? Duder, you need a break from the game, seriously.


    Its an analogy. And a light-hearted analogy even. Someone suggested making a pusher-user analogy but that is not so light-hearted nor productive. In actuallity our relationship with CCP is a mix between artist-fan and business-client.


    Regardless, these are all give-and-take relationships.

    CCP gives us good game, we give CCP our money and our appreciation.
    CCP gives us bad game, we give CCP our money but not our appreciation, and give constructive criticism (ideally) instead
    CCP continues giving us bad game, we give CCP our money but now criticize their actions and the position they're taking
    CCP continues giving us bad game, we don't give CCP our money and we leave.

    So

    Basically the secret to a good artist-fan, business-client, marriage (and even pusher-user) is in listening when the other side does not likes something that you did, and criticize you for it. If you don't listen to the other side properly, or even worse if you ignore it, then it leads to problems, more heated arguments, bitterness and, finally, breaking up of the relationship.

    If your spouse continues denying that which you ask, you divorce. If your artist continues producing art that you can no longer appreciate, you stop following said artist. If a business continues delivering a product that does not please its customers and fails to listen to their complaints, they lose their customers and gain bad publicity.


    Now, (and this is somewhat the point of this thread), go back to this point:

    CCP gives us bad game, we give CCP our money but not our appreciation, and give constructive criticism (ideally) instead
    CCP LISTENS, and try something else instead. Doesn't work for us, and we criticize again (hopefully, in a constructive manner)

    CCP Listens AGAIN, and try yet anoter approach. At this point we are frustrated, so we grow bitter and we no longer give constructive criticism (if we even give any criticism at all). We just bash-bash-bash-bash

    They might keep trying to do things to please us, but they will come to the point where they shut-down their efforts to talk with us because everything they say its either shot down in a huge ball of fiery divine wrath, or used against them. In either case, they stop listening to what we say and start focusing on what we do instead. They stop communicating.

    And that is BAD.. that is just BAD. You can't develop through trial and error.


    Do you see here how it is that we might be the ones to blame for them to stop "Listening to what we say, and watching what we do" instead?

    The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
    Trainwreck McGee
    Doomheim
    #15 - 2011-09-30 18:32:59 UTC
    I have been married unhappily for 10 years now and my wife has never tried to sell me a monocle for 70 dollars

    so **** your analogy

    CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
    Renan Ruivo
    Forcas armadas
    Brave Collective
    #16 - 2011-09-30 18:49:40 UTC
    Trainwreck McGee wrote:
    I have been married unhappily for 10 years now and my wife has never tried to sell me a monocle for 70 dollars

    so **** your analogy



    Good thing to see that you know so much about monoclegate ^^

    The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
    Iosue
    League of Gentlemen
    The Initiative.
    #17 - 2011-09-30 19:15:20 UTC
    I dunno, I don’t really see the mistress as the other games. I see it as their attempt to lure a different type of player. One that is attracted to MT and avatars instead of spaceships.
    Satav
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #18 - 2011-09-30 19:18:20 UTC
    Just curious........ Are you a guy in real life? Cause either you speaking out of experience or your a real in touch with your feminine side.

    :))))))))))))

    I think a different analogy would have gone further.
    Richard Hammond II
    Doomheim
    #19 - 2011-09-30 19:25:10 UTC
    An youre original, locked (IBTL), thread got locked cause you posted a video of a preacher/priest/clergy/religious type guy talking on this subject an EVE-O plus religion = no-no

    Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
    Iosue
    League of Gentlemen
    The Initiative.
    #20 - 2011-09-30 19:34:24 UTC
    Also consider that CCP is not a person, I does not have emotions. It cannot forgive, become angry, kiss and make up. It is an entity and has a directive: to make money. We, the player base, are also not a single entity that speaks with a single voice. We all have our opinions about CCP and its game. Some of us express these opinions regularly in the forums, others quietly make up their own minds without so much as a peep.

    While your analogy is cute, it is pretty far off base. I know forgiveness will make me a better person, but that’s assuming I hold an actual grudge against another person.

    CCP is a service provider and I am a customer. When they do things I do not like, I let them know my money will not continue to flow as long as I see certain critical issues. I am actually doing them a huge favor by doing this. If I go to restaurant and have a lousy meal, do I complain to the owner? Some may but I do not, I simply cease going to that restaurant any longer. If a mechanic does a poor job or overcharges me for parts or labor, do I complain to the business? No, I just stop using that shop and take my business elsewhere.

    I am doing CCP a favor in letting them know what problems I have with their service and how far they can go before I no longer see value in what they provide. This is a good thing. If CCP can’t handle their customer’s responses, they should go cease operations and start working for the government.
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