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Crime & Punishment

 
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A question on right of defense.

Author
Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-04-30 07:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Singulis Pacifica
This is derived from a topic on the general forum, which this part didn't get a proper answer and I still would like to know the in-game mechanics.

Anyway, Let's set an example. Player 1 has a freighter and is planning to haul a valuable commodity throughout EvE. He is part of a decent corp which is in turn part of a larger alliance. He flies through High-Sec space, so CONCORD will interfere at some point.

Ok, Player 1 comes to a system and is attacked by player 2.
Now, what I want to know is what Crimewatch sees as a valid, legal right to defend that will not result in CONCORD attacking all ships, including the defenders.

Obviously, if 2 attacks 1, 1 has the right to defend itself, but that's not really possible in a freighter.

Scenario A:
Player 1 calls for aid in his corp. Several are nearby and jump to 1 to support him. They are not part of a fleet with 1. Can they legally attack player 2, because said person is attacking their corp member? If so, would being in the same alliance as player 1 also be a justified reason to attack 2, while 2 never attacked the new players first?

Or will Scenario A always result in CONCORD attacking the defenders too as 2 never fired on them first?

Scenario B:
Although not part of a fleet with Player 1, several corp members fly with him across EvE and are present when 2 attacks 1. Because they are now visually present, does this merit the ability for the support players to open fire on 2, just because 1 is in their same corp? Again, does this also apply to being in the same alliance with player 1?

Or once gain, will Scenario B always result in CONCORD attacking the defenders too as 2 never fired on them first?

Scenario C:
Player 1 calls for aid in his corp/alliance. Several are nearby and jump to 1 to support him. They quickly form a fleet and attack 2, who is still attacking player 1. Is this a valid defense in the mechanics of Crimewatch, which will result in CONCORD only attacking player 2, even though 2 never actually fired a shot at the new fleet members, just player 1?

Scenario D:
Player 1 calls for aid in his corp/alliance and a fleet is formed. However, Player 2 stops at attacking player 1 and while player 1 is now part of a fleet, he never receives an additional hit. All hits on him were only when he was alone. Can the supporters of player 1 still attack player 2 now without CONCORD attacking them as well?

I hope someone with a good understanding of how Crimewatch works can shed some light on this matter.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#2 - 2012-04-30 07:20:27 UTC
They are about to replace crimewatch anyway, so anything you learn will only be valid for a short time.

I too would like to know the answer tho. I *THINK* they have to be in fleet to share aggression rights with you, but not sure.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-04-30 08:14:37 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
They are about to replace crimewatch anyway, so anything you learn will only be valid for a short time.

I too would like to know the answer tho. I *THINK* they have to be in fleet to share aggression rights with you, but not sure.

Fleets do not share kill rights. So unless the guy goes GCC or is flagged as killable to your corp/alliance already shooting him will result in being concorded. On the up side it's pretty much impossible to gain an agression flag in a freighter. (only way is to steal from a freghter wreck you don't have rights to.)
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#4 - 2012-04-30 08:49:06 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
They are about to replace crimewatch anyway, so anything you learn will only be valid for a short time.

I too would like to know the answer tho. I *THINK* they have to be in fleet to share aggression rights with you, but not sure.

Fleets do not share kill rights. So unless the guy goes GCC or is flagged as killable to your corp/alliance already shooting him will result in being concorded. On the up side it's pretty much impossible to gain an agression flag in a freighter. (only way is to steal from a freghter wreck you don't have rights to.)

So it is corps that share the flag, not fleets.

Not alot of experience with it, all of my pvp experience is low/null or wardecs.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Eryn Velasquez
#5 - 2012-04-30 09:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Eryn Velasquez
Tallian Saotome wrote:
...

Not alot of experience with it, all of my pvp experience is low/null or wardecs.


If you know wardecs, you should also know those silly boring station dockup/undock games, which all deal with this. Aggression, de-aggressing, kill-rights (in case of neutrals interfering), timers etc.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#6 - 2012-04-30 09:27:56 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
...

Not alot of experience with it, all of my pvp experience is low/null or wardecs.


If you know wardecs, you should also know those silly boring station dockup/undock games, which all deal with this. Aggression, de-aggressing, kill-rights (in case of neutrals interfering), timers etc.

Dealing with the 2 empire wardecs I did is what convinced me to never live there again so I don't have to deal with the terrible mess that is crimewatch Ugh

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.