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ccp - why cant i shoot a flashy pod anymore?

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Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-04-28 15:23:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Fleet Warpsujarento
So for the last 9 years if something was red you could shoot it. Now that's no longer the case.

Great job CCP. You've managed to break one of the few game mechanics that actually worked properly. Really inspires confidence in Inferno.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#82 - 2012-04-28 15:55:43 UTC
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
So for the last 9 years if something was red you could shoot it. Now that's no longer the case.

Great job CCP. You've managed to break one of the few game mechanics that actually worked properly. Really inspires confidence in Inferno.


The "if it's blinky red you can shoot it" convention has IIRC only existed since we redid the overview defaults in Apocrypha. We're going to have another look at this issue next week and see if we need to revise the way this works or not.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#83 - 2012-04-28 16:07:36 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
So for the last 9 years if something was red you could shoot it. Now that's no longer the case.

Great job CCP. You've managed to break one of the few game mechanics that actually worked properly. Really inspires confidence in Inferno.


The "if it's blinky red you can shoot it" convention has IIRC only existed since we redid the overview defaults in Apocrypha. We're going to have another look at this issue next week and see if we need to revise the way this works or not.




Yes, using the same color for GCC and a pirate is a masterstoke? Roll

I really wish you people would wake up CCP, it seems like your attitude is back to "it's playable" rather than "It's fun to play". Oops

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#84 - 2012-04-28 17:05:21 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The "if it's blinky red you can shoot it" convention has IIRC only existed since we redid the overview defaults in Apocrypha. We're going to have another look at this issue next week and see if we need to revise the way this works or not.

Yes, you do. The current state is not useful at all - the important information is not visible on the overview, while the unimportant information is. (No one except the pilot herself cares if she is GCC while in a capsule.)

Alternatively, make GCCd capsules valid targets :o)
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#85 - 2012-04-28 17:41:18 UTC
I feel the biggest issue here is this:

I was under the impression that you could shoot a pod that is considered an "outlaw."

I specifically went into my overview settings before engaging anyone and made sure that the only thing set to be "flashy red" is for "pilot is an outlaw."

I then fired on a flash red pod and had my ship blown up and took a 30% security status hit.


I don't have a real strong opinion on what the exact rules should be, but I would like to see choices in the overview settings to be a little clearer. At the moment it would seem that "pilot is an outlaw" is not an accurate description of that overview status category.

I had the sense to try all of this out on an alt toon ... but someone who thought they knew how the overview settings worked and found this out the hard way in an expensive ship could be understandably upset. I usually don't do anything in an expensive ship without knowing that I fully understand the mechanics.

I am really glad I didn't try this out on one of my real pilots as that is a lot of security status to grind back up!

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#86 - 2012-04-28 18:09:39 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
So for the last 9 years if something was red you could shoot it. Now that's no longer the case.

Great job CCP. You've managed to break one of the few game mechanics that actually worked properly. Really inspires confidence in Inferno.


The "if it's blinky red you can shoot it" convention has IIRC only existed since we redid the overview defaults in Apocrypha. We're going to have another look at this issue next week and see if we need to revise the way this works or not.

The main point is that before this change it was possible to set up your overview in such a manner that you can on a glance tell which things you can and which things you cannot shoot without CONCORD / gate gun interference. This is pretty essential in high-sec and low-sec combat, where bubbles do not exist and you have to be fast if you want to have a tackle rate anywhere close to useful. With this change, this is no longer possible, which is a major change. If it was intentional, yea, fine - but as an unintentional side effect it is quite annoying.

For the record, the solution of making GCCed pods valid targets would work for me too. ;)
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#87 - 2012-04-28 18:15:40 UTC
Here's another issue CCP. Why are Concord and the gate/stations guns not subject to Tidi like everyone else?
Smaller ships are being instapopped by them while people sit and wait 30 seconds to lock.

Working as intended? Oops



Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Shai 'Hulud
#88 - 2012-04-28 19:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Shai 'Hulud
You have never been able to shoot pods of players with higher sec. status than -5.0 unless at war or in same corp, while in high sec (without incurring a gcc yourself). Also, there has not been a "check box" to remove the warning for actions that provoke a gcc in high sec. for a LONG time now.

They changed the display of pods in gcc state, but you still get the warning and the rules did not change.

(There is a bug where you don't get the warning before shooting, but this has to do with a tidi bug)

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
Aeron Sophus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2012-04-28 21:18:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeron Sophus
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Aeron Sophus wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Adriel Malakai wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


If that's the case then please file a bug report immediately - the CONCORD pop-up should not be suppressible (and wasn't when I was testing on SiSi yesterday).



Just tested this - it appears you removed the check box in Escalation. Please tell me you were at least intelligent enough to have a check-box for low sec.


AFAIK it has *always* been the case that the CONCORD pop-up is the only non-suppressible confirmation dialogue in the game. Lowsec warnings have always had one AFAIK. None of this should have been changed in Escalation, but I can go check against previous expansions on a reference server if it's bothering you Smile
Uhm... Weren't you (or Masterplan, I forgot.) talking about messing with these checkboxes in your talk at fanfest?


For the redesign we're hoping to do over the summer, yes. Not for this release, though Smile
I don't know what kind of version control you use internally (if any - and god I hope you do, I think someone trolled CCP Veritas about that at Fanfest and he got rather evasive...) but could it be possible that something slipped into this release? I mean you DID implement the server sided under the hood crime watch changes this patch around - at least according to the patch notes.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#90 - 2012-04-28 21:38:44 UTC
Aeron Sophus wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Aeron Sophus wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Adriel Malakai wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


If that's the case then please file a bug report immediately - the CONCORD pop-up should not be suppressible (and wasn't when I was testing on SiSi yesterday).



Just tested this - it appears you removed the check box in Escalation. Please tell me you were at least intelligent enough to have a check-box for low sec.


AFAIK it has *always* been the case that the CONCORD pop-up is the only non-suppressible confirmation dialogue in the game. Lowsec warnings have always had one AFAIK. None of this should have been changed in Escalation, but I can go check against previous expansions on a reference server if it's bothering you Smile
Uhm... Weren't you (or Masterplan, I forgot.) talking about messing with these checkboxes in your talk at fanfest?


For the redesign we're hoping to do over the summer, yes. Not for this release, though Smile
I don't know what kind of version control you use internally (if any - and god I hope you do, I think someone trolled CCP Veritas about that at Fanfest and he got rather evasive...) but could it be possible that something slipped into this release? I mean you DID implement the server sided under the hood crime watch changes this patch around - at least according to the patch notes.


I'm reasonably sure that this hasn't happened, on the basis that I don't think our version control software supports integration of code that hasn't actually been written yet Smile

(I'm sure Explorer will be along shortly to confirm/deny!)
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-04-28 21:49:38 UTC
Potamus Jenkins wrote:
goons plan big event after major patch
crazy things happen
players scream conspiracy

You said it
I believe it
That settles it

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
MercenaryBlue
Federation.D'Aldeberan
#92 - 2012-04-28 21:55:24 UTC
Easy fix: Make outlaws the red square, white skull icon.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#93 - 2012-04-28 22:12:29 UTC
WhyTry1 wrote:
everytime i tried to shoot a pesky flashy goon pod in jita i get a concord message say ill get killed.. err why?


You can't shoot at GCC pods unless they are -5 or lower.
Ispai Ponue
Chaos Delivery Systems
#94 - 2012-04-28 22:19:01 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
So here's the rules:
* You can freely kill a pod if the pilot is an outlaw (below -5 sec status)
* You can't kill a pod if the pilot just has a GCC. If you try, you'll get the non-suppressible "Are you sure? CONCORD will wtfpwn you if you do this" dialog
This has always been the case

Normally someone with GCC will show up as red. What changed with Escalation was that we removed a special case in the UI that suppressed this red if they had GCC AND were in a pod. Now someone with GCC will always show up as red, regardless of their ship. However you will stil get punished if you kill a GCC pod BUT only if you click 'Yes' to the CONCORD question.

I do agree this can be a little confusing, and we're looking at adjusting it a little based on feedback such as this.


I like the pre-"fix" behavior. I think the UI should be configurable such that legal targets appear as obviously legal targets and those that are not do not.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#95 - 2012-04-28 22:29:17 UTC
Refer to post #2 in this thread.

As well, apropos nothing else whatsoever:

I saw an awful lot of un-manned shuttles spammed outside the 4/4 undock last night. I thought CCP took a dim view of that sort of thing?

But then gewn-trash is special, they tell me.

Ni.
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-04-28 22:52:15 UTC
The amount of people who have no clue to how basic gameplay works is always staggering to me. No, you could never remove the CONCORD warning when aggressing in high sec. Do you know how long we've been asking for this option? Every person who attacked a red pod in high sec did click yes on the "please kill me mr concord" warning popup box. You can only kill pods with less than -5.0 sec, regardless of GCC. If you don't read then it is your fault, just like getting contract scammed.

Yes the change to make pods turn red and not be killable is ridiculous. Red = you can shoot. Why are they red if I cannot shoot them? It only confuses the noobs who don't understand the game. It makes the game more complicated for no good reason. Change it back.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#97 - 2012-04-28 23:49:57 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
So for the last 9 years if something was red you could shoot it. Now that's no longer the case.

Great job CCP. You've managed to break one of the few game mechanics that actually worked properly. Really inspires confidence in Inferno.


The "if it's blinky red you can shoot it" convention has IIRC only existed since we redid the overview defaults in Apocrypha. We're going to have another look at this issue next week and see if we need to revise the way this works or not.

feature working as intended....interesting that the "fix:" is only after "burn Jita"....nice CCP...nice

...
Aeron Sophus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2012-04-29 00:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeron Sophus
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Aeron Sophus wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Aeron Sophus wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


AFAIK it has *always* been the case that the CONCORD pop-up is the only non-suppressible confirmation dialogue in the game. Lowsec warnings have always had one AFAIK. None of this should have been changed in Escalation, but I can go check against previous expansions on a reference server if it's bothering you Smile
Uhm... Weren't you (or Masterplan, I forgot.) talking about messing with these checkboxes in your talk at fanfest?


For the redesign we're hoping to do over the summer, yes. Not for this release, though Smile
I don't know what kind of version control you use internally (if any - and god I hope you do, I think someone trolled CCP Veritas about that at Fanfest and he got rather evasive...) but could it be possible that something slipped into this release? I mean you DID implement the server sided under the hood crime watch changes this patch around - at least according to the patch notes.


I'm reasonably sure that this hasn't happened, on the basis that I don't think our version control software supports integration of code that hasn't actually been written yet Smile

(I'm sure Explorer will be along shortly to confirm/deny!)
Well, in that case I must say that I am DEEPLY disappointed that CCP has not invested in a flux capacitor yet. I mean C'MON! Big smile
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#99 - 2012-04-29 05:00:57 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
So for the last 9 years if something was red you could shoot it. Now that's no longer the case.

Great job CCP. You've managed to break one of the few game mechanics that actually worked properly. Really inspires confidence in Inferno.


The "if it's blinky red you can shoot it" convention has IIRC only existed since we redid the overview defaults in Apocrypha. We're going to have another look at this issue next week and see if we need to revise the way this works or not.

feature working as intended....interesting that the "fix:" is only after "burn Jita"....nice CCP...nice



Craven little lick-spittles wouldn't want any of their precious little owners goonies getting podded by "pubbies," now would they. That simply would not do.

@CCP:

Fix this. Or just show a scrap of balls and admit that you're a bunch of basement-dwellers' little bitches.

Fake-E:

My inventor/manufacturer character appreciates the free kill-mails gewniee'z. Because even the most execrable pubbie knows how much those stats matter. Ta!

Ni.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#100 - 2012-04-29 09:01:16 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
Refer to post #2 in this thread.

As well, apropos nothing else whatsoever:

I saw an awful lot of un-manned shuttles spammed outside the 4/4 undock last night. I thought CCP took a dim view of that sort of thing?

But then gewn-trash is special, they tell me.

I am sure you petitioned what you saw?