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Concorded and sec status lost, why?

First post
Author
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#61 - 2012-04-27 18:29:40 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time.

How would a tiny scale "2000 character lag-fest in jita" even work? Can you artificially stress the server to that kind of extent?


Yes we can automate that kind of scale, but it wouldn't be representative or controllable enough to find this issue.

'Cause, quite frankly, no automation - anywhere - is going to be able to duplicate the kinds of crazy and unpredictablle things some 2000 humans are going to do.

Simulations don't.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#62 - 2012-04-27 18:31:46 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:


You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time.


How much of a waste of time is it going to be when all the petitions for reimbursement of ships because you failed to see the inevitable come rolling in?

Better to fix a problem before it happens. Less manpower wasted.

Mr Epeen Cool


To paraphrase one of my favourite films: you're out of your element. I could take a development team and spend a year manually testing all possible permutations of the relationship two systems could have with each other and still not clear 90% of use cases. Obviously this is wasteful, far more so than dealing with some reimbursement petitions (which, while regrettable, are still an efficient way of clearing up the mess this issue has created). Fixing something before it is found is presumably the Minority Report method of testing?

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#63 - 2012-04-27 18:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Mr Epeen wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:


You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time.


How much of a waste of time is it going to be when all the petitions for reimbursement of ships because you failed to see the inevitable come rolling in?

Better to fix a problem before it happens. Less manpower wasted.

Mr Epeen Cool

Actually, no. I'm pretty sure that handling all the petitions will be much less man-power intensive than the kinds of testing you're asking for.

Testing and validation is a MASSIVE PITA, and is incredibly fiddly and finicky, if done right. And you don't want what would happen if the testing were done slap-dash. Seriously.


Edit: Damn. Beaten to it. P

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#64 - 2012-04-27 18:34:49 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
i m curious, why is the issue caused exactly? any technical details?


The long and short of it is that the interaction between Crimewatch and Time Dilation prompted a little "disagreement" on criminal status.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Drago Palermus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-04-27 18:36:50 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Notwithstanding that the issue you are describing and this issue are separate, as this issue has never arisen in the game before now (nor could it have, really, without a crazy chain of coincidence happening). The Crimewatch system has never been stressed with this many edge cases and mitigating factors before and we will endeavour to react quickly in identifying and resolving issues as they arise.

So what you're saying is we're an indispensable part of the QA team? That we suss out problems that were previously unknowable? That we ensure CCP job security by pushing your code and hardware to the limits and then some?

I'm blushing over here...
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
#66 - 2012-04-27 18:37:40 UTC
I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this?
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#67 - 2012-04-27 18:38:07 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
i m curious, why is the issue caused exactly? any technical details?


The long and short of it is that the interaction between Crimewatch and Time Dilation prompted a little "disagreement" on criminal status.

Did it cause any lagTwisted

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

adam smash
Department of Gub'nent Welfare
Harkonnen Federation
#68 - 2012-04-27 18:38:41 UTC
So maybe you can tell us all something mr dev

Eve is 9-10 years old yes?

FULL of bugs out the ass...


World of tanks just hit 1 year.

The biggest "bug" people complain about is in fact how things should work (not detecting camo netted tanks)

Can ya tell us why eve is just so full of fail when another game is so full of idk WIN?


Can you tell us why when WoT had server lag it took them 2 weeks to fix the issue yet took CCP years to call lag a feature, and still did not get it right?

Bug testing taking time my ass.... this just shows how little you people know...

No one ever thought "O hey since we are slowing down X let's make sure Y Z all tick at the same time"

Idk where I live... that is what gets you places... not sitting around being a brain dead code monkey.
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#69 - 2012-04-27 18:39:18 UTC
I find out of a bad situation something good will come. Crimewatch priority up a couple notches......
whaynethepain
#70 - 2012-04-27 18:39:24 UTC
Hi, I received a GCC for shooting Outlaws, and was Concorded, without warning, at Jita 4-4.

I waited out the timers and re-shipped and was Concorded for opening fire on hostile outlaws once more, without warnings.

I know Concord are busy and have much to do, would it be possible to give them one of them re-inforced nodes to keep up with stuff, rather than just shooting anyone that aggressives?

I understand this is probably an unforeseen edge case log, and I wish you good luck with that, sounds quite painful.

I would also like to use this opportunity to thank CCP for all their efforts to bring the Eve-Online community together and expand the user base, nice one, keep up the good work.

Getting you on your feet.

So you've further to fall.

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#71 - 2012-04-27 18:39:37 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
i m curious, why is the issue caused exactly? any technical details?


The long and short of it is that the interaction between Crimewatch and Time Dilation prompted a little "disagreement" on criminal status.

:: nods ::
Figgured it was somesuch.


Gotta say, though - the results were pretty epic. And, when you think of it - in a 'real' furball of that nature, a LOT of such mistakes would've happened anyway. 'Friendly fire' is the second child of the fog of war; the first child is 'loss of situational awareness.'

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#72 - 2012-04-27 18:40:50 UTC
Gritz1 wrote:
I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this?


This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#73 - 2012-04-27 18:44:00 UTC
whaynethepain wrote:
Hi, I received a GCC for shooting Outlaws, and was Concorded, without warning, at Jita 4-4.

I waited out the timers and re-shipped and was Concorded for opening fire on hostile outlaws once more, without warnings.

I know Concord are busy and have much to do, would it be possible to give them one of them re-inforced nodes to keep up with stuff, rather than just shooting anyone that aggressives?

I understand this is probably an unforeseen edge case log, and I wish you good luck with that, sounds quite painful.

I would also like to use this opportunity to thank CCP for all their efforts to bring the Eve-Online community together and expand the user base, nice one, keep up the good work.


This sounds like you encountered the issue described in this thread. While the issue is now fixed, some people regrettably lost ships and security status. Please submit a petition if you feel you have unjustly lost your assets and this will be reviewed by our diligent Customer Support team.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Potrondal Morrison
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-04-27 18:46:18 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Gritz1 wrote:
I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this?


This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes.



That does not sound like a resounding yes. If not then thats just BS.
whaynethepain
#75 - 2012-04-27 18:48:50 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
whaynethepain wrote:
grumble grumble


This sounds like you encountered the issue described in this thread. While the issue is now fixed, some people regrettably lost ships and security status. Please submit a petition if you feel you have unjustly lost your assets and this will be reviewed by our diligent Customer Support team.


You guys really are sharp and efficient, nice one, respect to ya, many thanks.

Getting you on your feet.

So you've further to fall.

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#76 - 2012-04-27 18:50:07 UTC
Potrondal Morrison wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Gritz1 wrote:
I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this?


This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes.



That does not sound like a resounding yes. If not then thats just BS.


Without the petition and every single relevent detail sat in front of him, it would be borderline stupid for him to comment on the case. There is no reason to.

Your "look! look! He isn't saying what I specifically want him to!" is Fox News style commentary.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#77 - 2012-04-27 18:50:54 UTC
A resounding yes would have to come from a GM, via a petition :) They will check on a case by case basis which cannot happen on the forums

Potrondal Morrison wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Gritz1 wrote:
I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this?


This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes.



That does not sound like a resounding yes. If not then thats just BS.

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Tantabobo
Jester's Fleet
Jester's Alliance
#78 - 2012-04-27 18:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tantabobo
Potrondal Morrison wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Gritz1 wrote:
I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this?


This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes.



That does not sound like a resounding yes. If not then thats just BS.



He can't give a resounding yes, he has no idea of the situation that took place. It could very well turn out that the guy fired on the wrong target and was justifiably eliminated by CONCORD.

Anything short of, "case by case" basis would be the wrong course of action for an event like this.

--Damn devs, they are to fast.
Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2012-04-27 18:51:49 UTC
Potrondal Morrison wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Gritz1 wrote:
I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this?


This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes.



That does not sound like a resounding yes. If not then thats just BS.


Its a "I'm a code monkey and therefore don't have to deal with customer service complaints; we have a support staff for that and I won't override/step on their toes" response.

Or to put it another way:
When your car breaks down, do you call the billing department to resolve the issue?
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-04-27 18:54:38 UTC
Quote:
Concorded and sec status lost, why?

Good question, why is it only sec status lost? Sec status loss is so minimal as an inconvience and way easy to replace, thought EVE was supposed to be harsh and all that crap so there needs to be a better incentive to not lose your ship. Why cannot it be skill point loss, but its not CONCORD that is doing it and its just when your ship goes pop...dude can pop a hulk/freighter, hulk/freighter loses skillpoint, dude who shot the hulk/freighter loses skillpoints to CONCORD...but then at the same time mission runners screwing up your triggers, getting caught in a bubble at a gate...all cause you to lose skillpoints when your ship goes pop anywhere in EVE. And it does't prevent you from ganking since you can still do it, as the other ship isn't auto-protected since it will still get destroyed and you just have to have the balls to do it. You get to inflict it, but subject to it as well and its an inconvience that hurts down the very core of your soul....win/win in my book Twisted