EVE General Discussion

note - for the record, if I had my way, Jita would go nova, concord would cease to exist, warp to 0 wold go away, and evey last bot miner and afk miner would get podded.

But it won't change CCP's goals or directions. Raging at the miners might work temporarily (until the next nerf), but the real goal needs to be that CCP *has* to make it so that the miners must do something to get their isk. Moving their best income to where they must engage with normal players and compete for it is not only fair but is also the ethical way to handle this.

But yeah, personally let Jita burn.

I just wish it would actually accomplish something.

Frankly **** your ten man corp if means making the game miserable for my 8000 man corp. This isn't a point we're going to agree on, obviously, but I'm much happier with it being far more enjoyable to fight other giant coalitions at the expense of tiny corps not being able to take space.

I'm pretty sure wormhole space was made explicitly for the purpose of smaller corps having an opportunity to settle a frontier with unique, highly profitable resources that a tightly knit small group would have a dramatic advantage over, so I don't feel bad about 0.0 not being that place and don't think there's any reason for CCP to make it that place.

e: I like big space battles and I cannot lie, you other pilots can't deny that when a girl walks in with an itty bitty cyno and 2000 ships in your face you get sprung

I beg to disagree.

When I was alone I had to get to NPC Stain passing thru your sov (years ago). I got chased for 45 jumps by some particularly hell bent guys. Luckily I only found unmanned bubbles in the way and avoided others by warping to safes and planets.
When I joined an alliance I went 1 jump in low sec, fleet warp to POS and Titan insta-ported us to destination, still "above" of your sov on the maps.

I can't call it "huge source of risk" and imo it's just sh!te.

Sure, "on fight" operations have indeed hot drops and my fleet has been nuked itself by carriers and crap because of it.

BUT

Hot drop is not really related to bridges, you can get hot dropped without them, it's 2 separate things, which I happen to despise both (expecially bridges).
If you did not have bridges you'd actually risk being hot dropped WAY more, all the way to destination.

As for the conflict generation, imo in order to have a conflict you have to have warring factions.

When 0.0 was more "disconnected", you could have more and smaller entities in attrition instead of an handful of huge bored NAPs. Furthermore some of those smaller entities were varied, i.e. some were more industry focused. Yes it was probably before 2007.
Last time I was there, instead, all I could find was pure PVP corps with no industry left. Industry was just left to a couple of officers, mainly for ships reimbursement tasks.


Now, if large 0.0 alliances did not come with their stupid strings attached (politics, stupid hours boring ops etc.). But they do, so only real fun for small 10-30 roamers corps is NPC or WHs now.

I think you're over-generalizing what is generally perceived as risk averse PVPers. Highsec PVP differs from lowsec/nullsec PVP in the fact that due to the smaller gang size, the focus is more on being able to catch/kill everything that jumps through a gate rather than "can i run away from this situation if i get blobbed" and as a result the warfare has changed over time to reflect this. The reason highsec necessitates gank fits with neutral logi and sebo'd out heavy tackle is because the amount of time you have to lock down a target before he can burn back to the gate is much shorter compared to nullsec where you have drag bubbles that give you all the time in the world to take down a target. In nullsec, for example, you could kill a close range PVP fit BS that lands in a drag bubble 70km off a gate with a Rapier and minimal DPS through good piloting and range management because you have all the time in the world. In highsec, you can't do this because unless you can quickly thrown down lots of tackle, they can just gate crash and log off on the other side of the gate after jumping through clears their aggro and derez after a minute.

Anywhere else in New Eden, keeping eyes on the other side of a gate and warping off if you know you can't handle what is about to come through the gate is considered being smart, yet in highsec its considered being risk averse with a negative connotation. I can't count how many times people have complained that highsec war deccers are "happy to kill things they know they can kill, but the second we drop a huge blob with more Falcons than they have pilots they just dock up". Tell me, when did taking on things I know I can't kill suddenly become the sign of a good pilot? Why should I be considered a bad pilot who is "risk averse" because I know how my ship matches up against other ones and am good at recognizing bait?

Its a common myth that Highsec PVPers are the only people in EVE who only want "lazy/risk averse" kills, while nowadays even minor nullsec/lowsec alliances are able to cover an entire region with cyno alts and titan bridge blobs onto people. Using neutral logistics to hide your gang's fighting strength in a fleet engagement doesn't even come close to being able to having the ability to not only force project but also completely hide your entire gang over an entire region.

I've not had time to read the whole document but I saw this.



Thats wrong, Null sec mining does happen and is very profitable.

I don't like that a lot too.

I won't bring in extreme examples I played like Darkfall Online (where you lose ALL including gold and you are only relatively safe in NPC towns).

I played other less intense PVP games a la DAOC or Warhammer, where PvE is lol more than EvE (and actually gets useless once you have got those 3-4 items, all the rest comes from PvP including gear and weapons).
In those games you go out and kill or get killed. On open RvR servers at level 1 you can be killed right outside your camp, while questing, doing PvE etc, even inside instances.


In EvE "hi sec" I often team up with a mercs corp and protect certain people. Guess what if I see a known buttface I can't kill him. They are in NPC corps and immediately disband corp anyway. Plus they are many, can't be arsed to pick them all up.
If this was a real PvP area I could kill and pod them in peace. A PvP area without the 0.0 burdens, plus unlike WHs it's packed of people and unlike FW / 0.0 little blobs.

I managed to focus on a hand full of paragraphs and all i could deduce from it, is that the OP finds it strange that mining corporations do not defend themselves.

The OP points out that, almost all mining characters refuse to switch to a fighting ship.

Well OP, let me just help you out with that.

Before you can even begin to think you can defend yourself, you need to have trained at least the cruiser skill of a preferred faction, you need to have small and medium weapons skills complimenting the ship you're flying to at least level 4, you need to have a good couple of Engineering skills to level 3 ( at least ), some mechanic skills are also much wanted, maybe drone skills, add those too.

Now, if you focus on mining, refining and manufacturing, maybe some PI and some research, you're already looking at 20 million skill points, just to have that all reasonably maxed out.
Seeing as the average player trains about 1.3 - 1.5 million skill points per month, you're looking at at least 1 and a quarter years, just to get good at industry.

I don't know how your mathematical intelligence works, but training to also be able to defend yourself, even though you'd only really need to 3 times a year ( i think that's about the average ), sound very inefficient to me.

Btw, just so you know....
The fact that making isk has become one of the most important features of this game, is ENTIRELY CCP's fault.
By intoducing PLEX, they have done a few things.
1) Gave access to "previously" hard to get ships and modules that would otherwise be to expensive for most.
2) Gave people who have time/talent and knowledge of how to make isk, a way to play the game for free.
3) Gave people a reason to farm as much isk as possible, just so they could play for free.
4) A lot more, but i think if you think about it, you could come up with those yourself.

let's remember:
- supers nerf (drones + logoffski)
- titan nerf (guns + tracking)
- jump bridges nerf (boost to gate camping, nerf to "carebears in JFs")
- new T3 battlecruisers (cheaper gank)
- boost to hybrids (cheaper gank)
- ...?

You forgot Incursions and the Incursionbears. They brought a whole new breed of carebears, beargreed, bearentitlement and bearelitism to EVE which are far more reckless than any bear before them.

You are also focusing too much on miners. Death-to-PvP-Bears are everywhere and not limited to mining.

And you are too much of a goon *****. There are way too many paragraphs where you praise goons and jump around yelling "I want to marry mittens! I want to marry mittens!". Was rather disgusting to read and your poorest parts. Furthermore you conveniently ignore that most of the recent hi sec nerfs came through due to their actions and campaigns in the first place and forced and bloated the issue.

Lastly you didn't proof anything. You just jabber a lot without any references at all.


7/10 for your tremendous effort.

Titan can be killed, cyno alt can be killed, target system can be cyno jammed, cynos and titan-bridges need fuel.
Titan pilots are known to all spies (and in watchlist already), cyno alts can be detected and watchlisted too. Intelligence at work.

Neutral logistics ships just do the job and can't be countered without CONCORD intervention. New mechanic helps a little but ....

see the difference?