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Taxation
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Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#1 - 2012-04-26 16:43:33 UTC
Allow corps and alliances set tax on market buy and sell transactions.

0% to 100%
Noriko Mai
#2 - 2012-04-26 16:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
Tax in own station?
Tax for all Corp/Alliance members everywhere?

Setting the tax for Corp/Alliance members additional to the normal tax would be nice. In this way you will be able to collect taxes from every corp/alliance member and not only the mission runners.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#3 - 2012-04-26 19:13:45 UTC
Carton Mantory wrote:
Allow corps and alliances set tax on market buy and sell transactions.

0% to 100%

no

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#4 - 2012-04-27 00:38:15 UTC
+1

Taxation and player billings is a highly needed feature..

Generally there is a need for a lot of more isk sink features in the case of npc corps.

The main problem would be this would shift a lot of isk upwards to the higher isk holders, and shift a lot of isk power into null, since these would not be drained on most npc sinks to the same degree. A lot of that might be balanced out with expenses to high level skills and other expensive existing sinks for null players, so...

Specifically on market transaction tax I think you should just get your tax setting of already existing transaction tax and broker fees, not an added compounding taxation.

I would say a wealth tax would be interesting, if it could not be set above 2% per month.
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#5 - 2012-04-27 01:30:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanthra
hours to recode and redesign
hours to test code in house testing
monitoring on sis for days
release in patch
.......and hours later most of your corpmates have trade alts if they don't already. Weeks of man hours wasted for someting bypassable on a shake and bake quick alt.


Also as alwasy comes up for this oh so original idea....your ratters/mission runners get double taxed. First they get taxed for killing the rat. then they get taxed for selling off the loot they dropped. The indy/traders jsut get taxed once.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#6 - 2012-04-27 11:22:12 UTC
Misanthra wrote:
hours to recode and redesign
hours to test code in house testing
monitoring on sis for days
release in patch
.......and hours later most of your corpmates have trade alts if they don't already. Weeks of man hours wasted for someting bypassable on a shake and bake quick alt.


Also as alwasy comes up for this oh so original idea....your ratters/mission runners get double taxed. First they get taxed for killing the rat. then they get taxed for selling off the loot they dropped. The indy/traders jsut get taxed once.


A thread over here... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97348&find=unread

Tax evasion.. Yeah so? That would be visible in corp tax statement. To low and you get kicked, problem solved.. YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK..

If you meant npc tax.. Where exactly are you going to hide your character from taxation? In a player corp? Then that would be working as intended. You would not avoid any taxation increase on ratting, or even market VAT. If more service functions was more expensive in taxation while in npc corps. Well then the result would be depopulation of npc corps.

Result npc corped players generally would have around 25% or more reduced income. That would be the price for "protection"
I am sure there are better player corps and alliances to join then. Also if actual features started to get nerfed. Then we might start getting there.

Should players be forced out of npc corps.. I say yes. Should they then risk getting war decced.. I say no and support the idea Soundwave mentioned about micro corps. For exactly that issue.

Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#7 - 2012-04-27 16:47:44 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Misanthra wrote:
hours to recode and redesign
hours to test code in house testing
monitoring on sis for days
release in patch
.......and hours later most of your corpmates have trade alts if they don't already. Weeks of man hours wasted for someting bypassable on a shake and bake quick alt.


Also as alwasy comes up for this oh so original idea....your ratters/mission runners get double taxed. First they get taxed for killing the rat. then they get taxed for selling off the loot they dropped. The indy/traders jsut get taxed once.


A thread over here... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97348&find=unread

Tax evasion.. Yeah so? That would be visible in corp tax statement. To low and you get kicked, problem solved.. YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK..

If you meant npc tax.. Where exactly are you going to hide your character from taxation? In a player corp? Then that would be working as intended. You would not avoid any taxation increase on ratting, or even market VAT. If more service functions was more expensive in taxation while in npc corps. Well then the result would be depopulation of npc corps.

Result npc corped players generally would have around 25% or more reduced income. That would be the price for "protection"
I am sure there are better player corps and alliances to join then. Also if actual features started to get nerfed. Then we might start getting there.

Should players be forced out of npc corps.. I say yes. Should they then risk getting war decced.. I say no and support the idea Soundwave mentioned about micro corps. For exactly that issue.



I think NPC corps should just have 25% sales tax. My proposal is that the corp/alliance your in is taxing your transaction not where your transaction is taking place.

NPC corps are for new players.

Taxes for corp/alliance would be able to range 0% to 100%
Teshania
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-04-27 18:00:31 UTC
+1 Total Supported

Why

Trying to Tax someone for shooting a rock in space is a pain in the ass!

Yes alot of people have market alts. Its simple. If you know they are on and Doing stuff, and you are never seeing them generate Taxes. Boot them done simple!. (Then allow CEOs to comment on their corp history in 120 Characters or less. TAX EVADER)

To make things Even Better Turn UP! the NPC Corporation Taxes. Set those taxes at 15-20% Taxes This will help push people into Player owned Corporations.

Alliances should not have the ability to Do Taxes, But should be allowed to Issue Bills to Corporations.

We need a Bounty Button on the Forums
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-04-27 18:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kusum Fawn
shake and bake alt, here, it would take me about an hour to start my own corp, (Really i have no idea why i havent already)

station trades, can flips, a whole host of things, to not pay stupidly high taxes, or pay twice or whatnot, a ceo would just get a lack of tax entries , and with a large corp, how can you tell whos always on, what they are even doing, and how much they are evading taxes. much less keep track of all the alts they dont talk about.

shoot, none of my corpmates knows i post with this alt, how tehy supposed to track my taxes?


edit:

Better market controls for corp only buy orders (not contracts) corp only sell orders

etc, would go a long way towards makign "taxing" miners easier.

corp refine tax?

Income tax ceilings for transactions, (if i make over 100 mil a month mission running/ratting/plexing i pay X % miners have to make over X% in market rate goods or isk etc)

things of that nature taht could be set, but didnt have to be,

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#10 - 2012-04-27 18:45:43 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
shake and bake alt, here, it would take me about an hour to start my own corp, (Really i have no idea why i havent already)

station trades, can flips, a whole host of things, to not pay stupidly high taxes, or pay twice or whatnot, a ceo would just get a lack of tax entries , and with a large corp, how can you tell whos always on, what they are even doing, and how much they are evading taxes. much less keep track of all the alts they dont talk about.

shoot, none of my corpmates knows i post with this alt, how tehy supposed to track my taxes?


edit:

Better market controls for corp only buy orders (not contracts) corp only sell orders

etc, would go a long way towards makign "taxing" miners easier.

corp refine tax?

Income tax ceilings for transactions, (if i make over 100 mil a month mission running/ratting/plexing i pay X % miners have to make over X% in market rate goods or isk etc)

things of that nature taht could be set, but didnt have to be,


If you have three char first off your ceo gets your API. He knows when your on. If you char is not producing tax in his corp when your suppose to be then he has tools to see that. Now with taxation he even has more.
The problem is not player corps but NPC corps. A player who has been in npc hiding from wars and player corps issues then pays for his safety.
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-04-28 03:07:23 UTC
This does the opposite of encouraging people to fly internet spaceships with other people. I would very nearly consider this a Concordable offense.

Additionally, it's not universally enforceable. Beyond market alts we also have contracts which already have a higher potential margin. This change would result in a dramatic increase in market alts and/or an increase in loot/salvage bulk contracts -- mineral bulk contracts -- etc...

Additionally, a corp can implement things like this on its own by monitoring player activity and a group player environment (group mining w/ security, group mission running, small gang roams, etc..).
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-04-28 03:34:54 UTC
Carton Mantory wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:
shake and bake alt, here, it would take me about an hour to start my own corp, (Really i have no idea why i havent already)

station trades, can flips, a whole host of things, to not pay stupidly high taxes, or pay twice or whatnot, a ceo would just get a lack of tax entries , and with a large corp, how can you tell whos always on, what they are even doing, and how much they are evading taxes. much less keep track of all the alts they dont talk about.

shoot, none of my corpmates knows i post with this alt, how tehy supposed to track my taxes?


edit:

Better market controls for corp only buy orders (not contracts) corp only sell orders

etc, would go a long way towards makign "taxing" miners easier.

corp refine tax?

Income tax ceilings for transactions, (if i make over 100 mil a month mission running/ratting/plexing i pay X % miners have to make over X% in market rate goods or isk etc)

things of that nature taht could be set, but didnt have to be,


If you have three char first off your ceo gets your API. He knows when your on. If you char is not producing tax in his corp when your suppose to be then he has tools to see that. Now with taxation he even has more.
The problem is not player corps but NPC corps. A player who has been in npc hiding from wars and player corps issues then pays for his safety.


only if that ceo has the information on this account and/or whether it is linked in game to the character in the corp
If i make this character a corp and its on another account (hard to station trade among same account alts) there isnt any way for a ceo to know. If im fleet mining then there is little to no wallet activity if i simply orca tank the belt rats,

there are several other ways around paying taxes. and/or not informing ceo's of paying taxes.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#13 - 2012-04-28 07:17:08 UTC
+1

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#14 - 2012-04-30 16:43:54 UTC
Katerwaul wrote:
This does the opposite of encouraging people to fly internet spaceships with other people. I would very nearly consider this a Concordable offense.

Additionally, it's not universally enforceable. Beyond market alts we also have contracts which already have a higher potential margin. This change would result in a dramatic increase in market alts and/or an increase in loot/salvage bulk contracts -- mineral bulk contracts -- etc...

Additionally, a corp can implement things like this on its own by monitoring player activity and a group player environment (group mining w/ security, group mission running, small gang roams, etc..).

I understand why you bring these points up.

The issue is that transaction tax would not change the costing of the goods. It would be added as a cost. The issue is that if your a member of a corp this component has not been fully implemented into corps/alliances.

The change only gives more monitoring thru the system. Just like they know where you currently are and what ship your in.
Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
#15 - 2012-05-30 21:18:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zelda Wei
If you introduce artificial wealth 'taxes' then players will game the tax system, just like real life.

Recognise this and make the 'tax' rules promote the game vision.

The obvious example is extend the effects of standing on taxes and fees.

Gate & Docking fees based on Ship (+cargo) Mass * Security.

More Office with Rent based on standing.

Extend the contract system, e.g. Reverse Auctions for Courier contracts.
Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-05-30 23:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Trollin
wasting thousands of hours coding+testing+receiving feedback+recoding+retesting complex tax schema simply to be bypassed by 2nd account with traders in private corps

priceless.

if your corp sucks so bad they will kick you for not making N isk in taxes they are probably worthless bunch of tools anyways

all this tax tax, but there is no reason for tax, no social net, no police payrolls, there isnt a valid reasoning other than inflation curb.

if we have inflations, then tune back the isk flow, (bounties, mission reward...) no need to jam up the market with unnecessary drag

We are our own worst enemy.