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Slight buff/nerf to rails
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Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-04-25 16:20:37 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It's an awesome blaster boat. We're talking rails though. Do try to keep up agent 007.Lol

That's the issue it's not made to be a blaster boat it's made to be a rail boat.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#22 - 2012-04-25 16:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It's an awesome blaster boat. We're talking rails though. Do try to keep up agent 007.Lol

That's the issue it's not made to be a blaster boat it's made to be a rail boat.



Hybrid. Its made to be a hybrid

Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range per level and 5% bonus to shield resistances per level

Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level

I've found that several Caldari ship's excel with blasters over range. Ferox, Naga, Rokh. Just as I have used a rail Hyperion and a rail Domi. Can't be so one dimensional with your ship designs.

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Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-25 23:08:20 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
If all a rail ship needs is an optimal bonus and a damage bonus can someone explain the Eagle?RollLol


Lack of speed, lack of PG, the existence of the Zealot, and the fact that medium rails are worse off than other size rails, relative to other weapons (see the Hurricane being a better sniper than the Ferox, despite no range bonus).

In any case, you confused "if a ship has these bonuses then it is good" with "if a ship has these bonuses then it may be good". But as we can see from the Merlin, a railboat doesn't necessarily need optimal and damage bonuses to be good anyway. Judging ships solely by their bonuses doesn't work.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#24 - 2012-04-26 00:18:07 UTC
Medium and large rails need some looking at, yes, but OP's proposal would turn them into beam lasers. No point duplicating a weapon system. I'd much rather nerf ongrid warping (to 200 or even 300 km away), which increases the sniper engagement to the point where a single probing ship isn't a win button against railgun snipers.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#25 - 2012-04-26 02:11:56 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
If all a rail ship needs is an optimal bonus and a damage bonus can someone explain the Eagle?RollLol


umm... eagle. yeah. "ugly is as ugly does." it's an ugly ship with ugly bonuses.
Sunviking
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-04-26 20:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunviking
The main problem is that the Caldari Tech1 Railboats do not have damage bonuses. Instead they have Optimal Range and a Shield Resistance bonus.

Shield resistance bonus is a bit pointless for long-range gun boats, so I wonder why they have them in the first place.

CCP were talking about making the railboats the same as the Naga i.e. range and damage bonus - we shall if this happens in the near future. If it does happen and the shield resist bonuses get changed to damage bonuses, then I believe your problem of poor Railboat damage will be solved.
Kailee Athonille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-04-26 20:11:17 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Rails need 10% more damage and 20% more range!

-Liang


Since I fly Gallente and use Rails quite a bit, I vote for 250% additional damage and 5x range bonus. Lol
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-04-26 23:28:48 UTC
I still feel there is room for a ammo rebalance in the Hybrid buff. Problem is that the optimal reduction of the close range ammos hits rails a lot harder than blasters, if this was swapped to a falloff reduction for some ammos then rails would benefit more or at least the DPS would have better range projection.
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#29 - 2012-04-27 03:55:27 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Rails need 10% more damage and 20% more range!

-Liang


While the online sarcasm is noted, I do agree that rails need some form of a buff.

Outside of the lowest range ammo, they do a near worthless amount of damage. I laugh at my rail damage when i equip anything outside of antimatter.
Rara Yariza
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-04-27 04:13:05 UTC
small rails need a tracking boost, no way should a small gun be out-tracked by any medium one
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#31 - 2012-04-27 16:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Rara Yariza wrote:
small rails need a tracking boost, no way should a small gun be out-tracked by any medium one


Small rails have a vastly better effective tracking than medium ones, since they only have only 33% of the signature resolution of a medium rail gun(what basically triples her effective in the tracking formula compared to medium rails).

As for hybrids, CCP should have deleted them 3.5 years ago, that's all I have to say about it after the last "buff".

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Rara Yariza
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-04-27 17:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rara Yariza
The Djego wrote:
Rara Yariza wrote:
small rails need a tracking boost, no way should a small gun be out-tracked by any medium one


Small rails have a vastly better effective tracking than medium ones, since they only have only 33% of the signature resolution of a medium rail gun(what basically triples her effective in the tracking formula compared to medium rails).

As for hybrids, CCP should have deleted them 3.5 years ago, that's all I have to say about it after the last "buff".



i meant something like heavy electrons. Small rails still need a tracking boost though, they should be comparable to small lazors using scorch.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#33 - 2012-04-27 19:01:03 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Rara Yariza wrote:
The Djego wrote:
Rara Yariza wrote:
small rails need a tracking boost, no way should a small gun be out-tracked by any medium one


Small rails have a vastly better effective tracking than medium ones, since they only have only 33% of the signature resolution of a medium rail gun(what basically triples her effective in the tracking formula compared to medium rails).

As for hybrids, CCP should have deleted them 3.5 years ago, that's all I have to say about it after the last "buff".



i meant something like heavy electrons. Small rails still need a tracking boost though, they should be comparable to small lazors using scorch.


Even a 150mm rail tracks about 46% better than a heavy electron blaster. A plain tracking boost is not very likely to happen.

The idea of a low range, high tracking railgun is actually quite interesting and makes sense, as soon as you start to play a bit around with gallente slot layouts and caldari optimal bonuses. Then again it is CCP.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#34 - 2012-04-27 19:56:19 UTC
Quote:
The idea of a low range, high tracking railgun is actually quite interesting and makes sense, as soon as you start to play a bit around with gallente slot layouts and caldari optimal bonuses. Then again it is CCP.


No, it isn't. Rails are about range, and they're good at that. There already exists, among the long ranged weapon systems, a high-tracking, low-range turret. They're beam lasers. Changing rails into beam lasers is dumb.


The problem is that range beyond 150km is useless, and that is where medium and large railboats excel. Fix the artificial range cap and you fix railguns.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-04-28 06:18:46 UTC
The whole idea of both Gallente and Caldari using hybrids but having different types of bonuses (Gallente damage, Caldari range) is deeply flawed and causes big problems for balance.
Balancing hybrids for Gallente could make it OP for Caldari or vice versa.

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