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Level 4 mission's moving to lowsec

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Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#61 - 2012-04-26 07:33:52 UTC
Souvera Corvus wrote:


I've been looking at what are quite frankly ridiculous market prices and trying to source exactly where the issue lies. If you were to take the rise in the price of a Dominix for example; before I left some 6 -8 months ago 40-50 mil would be relatively normal now 90mil isn't unheard of. I thought that perhaps CCP's campaign against the botters might be to blame but then that would be reflected in much smaller mineral markets and much higher mineral costs and it doesn't seem to be. Mineral prices whilst higher by some 20% in terms of Tritanium and Pyerite (Trit 3.5, Pye 6.00) have not appreciated by anything like the same measure as finished products. Higher-end mineral prices don't seem to be remarkably different to when I left.

The only thing that changed it seems, and I may be wrong here and am happy for someone to point it out if I am, are the proliferation of Incursions in hi-sec and a resulting increase in player incomes and the amount of ISK washing around hi-sec.




I can see that you have a Ph.D. in Economics... Roll

What caused the insane price increases was rampant speculation on the part of traders ahead of changes to the Drone Regions and some other mechanics changes coming later when the rest of Inferno launches.

How the hell you added 1+1 and got 50 is beyond me.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-04-26 07:34:49 UTC
I like how you think that moving level 4 missions to low sec will somehow get high sec carebears to go into low sec.
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-04-26 07:43:51 UTC
Yatama Kautsuo wrote:
half the people would probably stop play if this would happen... what's left then for the highsecbears to do?


Do lvl 3s. Or move to lowsec.

If you are one of those who is just there for the money, then you might understand that PVE in highsec is too convenient and makes PVE outside highsec not worth the effort.

Instead if you are here for fun, then level 3 missions are fine.

Obviously, empire PVE is convenient to solo players but well organized groups can access better rewards in other areas of the game. A player has ways to improve his income over highsec activities, but he must find a corporation and move to 0.0 at the same time. If these two steps are not made at the same time, you're not improving your income.


Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
#64 - 2012-04-26 07:50:58 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Souvera Corvus wrote:


I've been looking at what are quite frankly ridiculous market prices and trying to source exactly where the issue lies. If you were to take the rise in the price of a Dominix for example; before I left some 6 -8 months ago 40-50 mil would be relatively normal now 90mil isn't unheard of. I thought that perhaps CCP's campaign against the botters might be to blame but then that would be reflected in much smaller mineral markets and much higher mineral costs and it doesn't seem to be. Mineral prices whilst higher by some 20% in terms of Tritanium and Pyerite (Trit 3.5, Pye 6.00) have not appreciated by anything like the same measure as finished products. Higher-end mineral prices don't seem to be remarkably different to when I left.

The only thing that changed it seems, and I may be wrong here and am happy for someone to point it out if I am, are the proliferation of Incursions in hi-sec and a resulting increase in player incomes and the amount of ISK washing around hi-sec.




I can see that you have a Ph.D. in Economics... Roll

What caused the insane price increases was rampant speculation on the part of traders ahead of changes to the Drone Regions and some other mechanics changes coming later when the rest of Inferno launches.

How the hell you added 1+1 and got 50 is beyond me.


Love how you have reading comprehension: elementary.

Speculation on behalf of players, as outlined by Tyberius was something I conceded in a later post. What I went on say is that ship trade volumes have remained steady despite huge price increases and if it remains like that then the question still stands.

Get past tl;dr, join a proper corp and then I might have a little more time for what passes as your commentary.
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-04-26 07:51:33 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I like how you think that moving level 4 missions to low sec will somehow get high sec carebears to go into low sec.


Highsec risk averse carebears will move to lvl3 and reduce the isk flow into the game. I don't understand why they should complain for the diminished income since they don't use it. Their income has been nerfed by inflation anyway.

However, there are a lot of people that run missions just to make money. They stay in highsec just because it's the best spot for them, where the risk/reward ratio is the most favourable. If the risk/reward ratio is balanced, they will move.

I mean that lowsec and nullsec should be lucrrative over highsec even for solo players; currently they aren't.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#66 - 2012-04-26 07:52:03 UTC
Missions are disconnected from the rest of the persistent universe, and as such don't belong to a sandbox.

Do whatever needs to be done to remove the bot-like grind that results in 1.94 Damsels rescued every minute. If it means getting rid of the missions, that's fine as well.

.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-04-26 08:39:45 UTC
Souvera Corvus wrote:
L4's are still in low-sec as far as I'm aware (Haven't done many recently) and they're better paid than the ones in hi-sec, the OP (Vicious troll that he is) suggested moving all them to low-sec to upset hi-sec bears like Tyberius


I still cannot see how 20-50% increases in mineral prices over a three month period (and a decrease in the case of Mexallon) lead to 100-120% increase in ship prices over the same period across most ship categories over the same time. I concede the point on eve-players anticipation of change kicking off the inflationary spiral to a degree. The key test will come if those prices are maintained over the next 3-6 months because Incursioners are awash with risk-free cash; if you don't have the cash you can't pay the price but trade volumes, according to eve-tools anyway, haven't dropped as the prices sky-rocketed and so hi-sec players have been absorbing the hit. (Megathron trade volume index for example


My experience is that 4-5 people cycling agents and completing missions as a group will make more over time than a single player doing them solo in terms of reward, LP, standing and faction standing and that holds true up to L5 and FW missions. If they aren't then they're doing it wrong.Hi-sec and L4's have always encouraged group participation, they are even i hear (god forbid) PVE corporations. I can't imagine much attraction in those if it were far easier to complete them on your own.They existed before Incursions and would if Incursions moved to low-sec I'd wager.


I have always suported L4's in hi-sec, I have always thought suicide-ganks were way too easy, that hi-sec dec bears lives should be made harder and that low-sec is great as it is and only needs the odd tweak here and there but incursions should not be in hi-sec

Put them in low-sec and I still think Tyberius and his friends would fleet up and I think they'd have more fun doing it as well.

If incursions were moved to lowsec I'd stop doing them. I have no characters in null to have a stable chance at doing them there and lowsec in particular disinterests me. If push came to shove and incursions and lvl 4's were moved I'd probable step up plans to find a good WH corp to join and act on my interest in learning how to live there.

Either way I haven't run them lately and certainly not since the patch just put in place, but if what people are saying is true it may not be worth the risks to run in lowsec either.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#68 - 2012-04-26 08:42:54 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If incursions were moved to lowsec I'd stop doing them.


Why?

.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-04-26 08:53:29 UTC
Roime wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If incursions were moved to lowsec I'd stop doing them.


Why?


As I stated I have a disinterest in lowsec in particular. That and I'm totally unversed in PvP at the moment, something that may be rectified at some point. I truly do like to play this game casually for the most part. Having to be constantly on guard isn't my idea of a good time when I'm not looking to get into a fight.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#70 - 2012-04-26 09:08:28 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Roime wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If incursions were moved to lowsec I'd stop doing them.


Why?


As I stated I have a disinterest in lowsec in particular. That and I'm totally unversed in PvP at the moment, something that may be rectified at some point. I truly do like to play this game casually for the most part. Having to be constantly on guard isn't my idea of a good time when I'm not looking to get into a fight.


Ok, fair enough. I personally don't get much enjoyment from the PVE, besides playing the treasure hunter after shiny plex drops. But even shooting red crosses becomes exciting when I do it under exposure to attack Smile

What I love is the perceived sense of danger, the risk itself. I can log off from RL, and enter a world requiring constant attention to surroundings, where I can be the hunter and the hunted at the same time. The process of building up a fight and then finally pushing your piloting abilities, skills and lovingly crafted fit to the max is just endlessly fun in so many ways that NPC combat can never be. Recommended!

Adrenaline is a sweet, sweet drug Cool

.
Mark Androcius
#71 - 2012-04-26 09:33:36 UTC
WarlockX wrote:
Or he's confused. Because there used to be two things that affected payout. Security rating of the system you are in and the quality of the agent. They took out the quality but the security of a system still is taken into account, so running a mission in a 0.5 > 1.0.


Ah, i didn't even take that possibility into consideration, good one.

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Josef Djugashvilis
#72 - 2012-04-26 10:20:22 UTC
Posting is a Miilla "look at me " thread.

This is not a signature.
Lady Aja
#73 - 2012-04-26 10:48:58 UTC
Souvera Corvus wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Lady Aja wrote:
Miilla wrote:
When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec?



you are a fuckign idiot.


Reported for circumventing the profanity filter and subjecting my virgin eyes to your obscene language


He wasn't wrong though.................



i more often than not get my ing's mixed up in some manner. be it going or goign king kign so who gives a poop? opps did i just get around the profanty filter by using a different word?

any who...
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#74 - 2012-04-26 11:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Camios wrote:
Yatama Kautsuo wrote:
half the people would probably stop play if this would happen... what's left then for the highsecbears to do?


Do lvl 3s. Or move to lowsec.

If you are one of those who is just there for the money, then you might understand that PVE in highsec is too convenient and makes PVE outside highsec not worth the effort.

Instead if you are here for fun, then level 3 missions are fine.

Obviously, empire PVE is convenient to solo players but well organized groups can access better rewards in other areas of the game. A player has ways to improve his income over highsec activities, but he must find a corporation and move to 0.0 at the same time. If these two steps are not made at the same time, you're not improving your income.




No, theyre either leave (as youve removed the content they pay to play) or mine or do other things available to do in high sec. You are never going to move ppl that dont want to go to low TO low.
This is mean to be enjoyment. Im not paying to have a second job here. When this game is no longer enjoyable I tend to stop paying for it and find one that is.

Ive been here on and off since 2005 and havent stopped coming back yet but Im betting if they did remove lvl IVs from high sec, based on nothing more than the qqs of lowsec/0.0 ppl (without removing the tech moons' infinite income) youd see another mass cancellation wave and that would again reverse CCP's decision OR in a week or so the same ppl would be QQing that lvl IIIs and mining are making too much money and those should be removed from high sec as well

And if you can "access better rewards in other areas of the game" why arent ppl doing that and not paying attention to what ppl in High sec are doing? Cause they want easy kills.

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#75 - 2012-04-26 11:18:16 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:

And if you can "access better rewards in other areas of the game" why arent ppl doing that and not paying attention to what ppl in High sec are doing? Cause they want easy kills.


No, they guys who want easy kills stay in hisec and kill defenseless people there.

The reason most people want the income sources balanced is that they are facing a ridiculous choice: Keep living where they live with their friends, risking their assets all the time while making less ISK, or move to hisec and abandon all that is worth enjoying in this game.

Also some people just would like to nudge hiseccers to realize all the fun they are missing, that low/null is not nearly as dangerous as they think, and that PvP combat offers much better entertainment return for your monthly subscription fee than the same old missions over and over again.

Doing L4s is surely much more like second job than flying out with your buddies for a good fight. Just sayin.

.
Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#76 - 2012-04-26 11:49:12 UTC
Not all level 4 agents should be moved to lowsec. CCP would lose too many subs if they do that as people wontt be able to go back to L3 missions.

Most of the people who want L4's moved to lowsec simply want easier and shinier kills...

These people are the same ones who complained about incursions and have now gone back to complaining about missions.

Lowsec simply needs to be balanced as the isk potential between 0.0 and highsec, where at the moment it is fairly inadequate compared to the risk entering there (highsec rewards, 0.0 risk). Perhaps L5's could simply be made a bit easier?
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-04-26 11:52:25 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Mark Androcius wrote:
Better idea, move the HIGH QUALITY lvl4 gents to low-sec and keep the low quality ones in high.
Low quality lvl4 agents, offer just a tiny bit more ( sometimes less even ) LP and ISK then high quality lvl3's.


Didn't they level the quality of agents a few patches ago?


Nope, i can still clearly see a huge difference in payout from one agent to the other.


in different security status systems?
Sunviking
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-04-26 11:54:57 UTC
OP is such a Troll, lvl 4 missions will never be moved to lowsec.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-04-26 16:59:51 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Lady Aja wrote:
Miilla wrote:
When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec?



you are a fuckign idiot.


Reported for circumventing the profanity filter and subjecting my virgin eyes to your obscene language


No one with a monocle has virgin eyes
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-04-26 17:43:14 UTC
Level 4 missions as they exist today as just far more compatible with highsec space than lowsec.

They require the highest tanks and dps, meaning you either bring a big ship, or an expensive ship. This does not fit in well with a high risk environment.
They require the most time invested, and since the majority of the payout only comes when the mission is almost complete, interruptions by other players are the most costly.

If lowsec level 4s were designed to be run in a reasonably well equipped BC and completed in about the same time as a level 3, they'd be a bit more tempting.