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My blog post on the POS rewrite + discussion

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Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#1 - 2012-04-22 01:39:47 UTC
http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/04/my-vision-for-poses.html I wrote a blog post on what I would like to see as high level design goals for a POS rewrite, which will likely be a major topic at the next CSM summit.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#2 - 2012-04-22 04:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
I, in general, agree with everything in there.

My thoughts on it were a trifle too big to stick in a comment though.

So, my fleshed out thoughts:
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blog/2012/04/22/pos-changes-for-eve/

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2012-04-22 08:40:37 UTC
Two step wrote:
http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/04/my-vision-for-poses.html I wrote a blog post on what I would like to see as high level design goals for a POS rewrite, which will likely be a major topic at the next CSM summit.


I particularly like "Scalable". 1-man mini POS have long been a hobby-horse of mine. I would suggest that they be unable to mount offensive weapons and be anchorable anywhere that there isn't another POS, outpost or gate on grid. However they should be dockable (with a strict limit on the volume of ships that can be stored in them). At a stroke you have then introduced player housing, which is one of the best hooks for getting people involved in an MMO.

I strongly, strongly suggest that you exert maximum pressure on CCP to make mini POS customisable in appearance.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
VCBee 180
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-04-22 11:06:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I strongly, strongly suggest that you exert maximum pressure on CCP to make mini POS customisable in appearance.


get out
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#5 - 2012-04-22 14:32:09 UTC
VCBee 180 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I strongly, strongly suggest that you exert maximum pressure on CCP to make mini POS customisable in appearance.


get out



Sorry buddy, 6 month sub says I'm staying.

*folds arms*


What now?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-04-22 17:04:13 UTC
we ban npc corp forum alts from csm forums, that's what
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-04-22 17:05:44 UTC
In any case, POS revamping is a huge improvement to the null and lowsec experience as well as wormholes, so I commend Two Step for following through on this.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#8 - 2012-04-22 17:13:35 UTC
OOo, I know what I'd forgotten to say. Dead space field generation, with a acceleration gate which can be locked.

Have it be hackable, to allow people without proper standings to enter, up to the mass limit. Have it be destroyable (if time consuming. maybe a short reinforcement timer) to let people deploy their own, to enter the field.

Added expense for safety (high cpu/power draw), and it's not perfect. But means randoms are /less/ likely to waste time on it.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2012-04-22 17:41:36 UTC
OH just in case this old favourite has been forgotten - allow abandoned (offline) POS to be accessed with Hacking skill (even if it takes Hacking V, that's fine)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#10 - 2012-04-22 18:04:22 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
OH just in case this old favourite has been forgotten - allow abandoned (offline) POS to be accessed with Hacking skill (even if it takes Hacking V, that's fine)

My alt would love that feature.

Maybe even initiate an unachoring cycle that could take a few days just to give the owner a chance to return.

How to win EVE
discordigant
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-04-23 10:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: discordigant
Firstly thankyou for diving into this problem, any upgrades to this system would be valued.


Allowing the creation of extra tabs of storage with assigned member use for individual use in CH's and SMA's would be the ultimate goal for security.


I would also like to see in C1's a tower size restriction to medium or small, or change the mass limitations on C1's to end this madness of reaction systems living untouched with relative safety for the logistical nightmare they pose to mess with.

EDIT: And god yes a way to remove old towers without shooting at them for a wrist slashing amount of time.

The T3 subs issue needs to be fixed.

I would also like to see WH folk having the ability to change clones on the fly to suit situations (Not proposing jump cloning in and out of WH's that's just bad apple sauce) but the ability to do what every other player base in this game has the option to do. PVE and PVP sets.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#12 - 2012-04-23 13:47:48 UTC
My POS wishlist:

1) Either a special hangar or configuration options on the existing hangars to allow access to people without roles. This makes administration much easier and limits the necessity of roles for corps that live out of a POS. The idea would be that if you can get through the shields, you have access to the hangar (same for the SMA).

2) Refitting T3 subs. Duh.

3) Some sort of access to Incarna content. I don't care about WiS, but I do occasionally like to modify my avatar. That's inaccessible outside of a proper station.

4) The ability to easily dismantle an abandoned POS. I'd suggest adding an "emergency power" feature so that the POS would go about a week after running out of fuel, then be available for anyone to unanchor. Perhaps require an additional step in empire space due to the local Navy and/or Concord policing the area.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Stralow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-04-24 17:25:47 UTC
discordigant wrote:
I would also like to see WH folk having the ability to change clones on the fly to suit situations (Not proposing jump cloning in and out of WH's that's just bad apple sauce) but the ability to do what every other player base in this game has the option to do. PVE and PVP sets.


I've made a similar suggestion a while ago. My plan was a ship or better a pos module, that lets you change your clone in WH space. It lets you only switch it there. So if you get podded in your WH space, you're still screwed. No jump in or jump out of the WH system. Every HS/LS/0.0 space player uses jump clones and its just normal. Only in WH space i am forced to go to pvp with an one billion mining imp or just don't use one and that's not right.
End of it was, that most people just read "wh" and "jump clone" and started to throw the usual "its wh space with billions and billions of isk so just deal with it" crap.

i say we take off and nuke the whole site from orbit. it's the only way to be sure
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-04-25 05:06:44 UTC
Care to include no structure mails in that? Or do i need to explain why I think structure mails need to go away?
discordigant
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-04-25 05:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: discordigant
Marlona Sky wrote:
Care to include no structure mails in that? Or do i need to explain why I think structure mails need to go away?



Perhaps you need to for ill experienced people like me, i have not a lot of null experience but on the WH front i do find the tactical information on my opponent useful as not everyone will tower bash or invade a hole. Knowing that they have no experience in a tower bash i find to be relevant.


EDIT: On the mail front, i would also like to see SD mails introduced. I want to see if people have a pussy history of SD there riches in front of people, i also think those SD mails should be attributed to the force attacking and **** caging said POS that the SD happened in.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-25 07:58:33 UTC
discordigant wrote:
Perhaps you need to for ill experienced people like me, i have not a lot of null experience but on the WH front i do find the tactical information on my opponent useful as not everyone will tower bash or invade a hole. Knowing that they have no experience in a tower bash i find to be relevant.


Basically the way the current mechanic works is if anyone attacks your tower, the tower instantly sends a mail to the tower owner that it is under attack. That mail is very specific on tower location, exact ship attacking it and who is flying said ship. This allows large alliances/null power blocks to project tower coverage far and wide on valuable moons and such. All without having to actually occupy/live in the space.

These towers have alts logged off at them. The very moment you attack one, the alt logs in and adjusts the amount of strontium to allow the tower to come out of reinforcement mode at a time that is suitable for the power block to assemble a massive force to ensure you are not able to take the moon.

Another bad side effect of structure mails is AFK empires or Road Trip empires. There is nothing you can do while they are gone to threaten their space. Want to drop a SBU to start the process of taking a system that is claimed by some far distant empire that never lives there, but has sov? The moment you drop it, a mail is sent out with all the details. That distant empire is notified, massive armada is formed and before that SBU on-lines, they have trans-versed the galaxy (lol power projection) in no time at all.

In closing; structure mails is one of several cancers of how null operates. Total and complete favoritism of power blocks and gives a giant middle finger to anyone who is not part of a power block. As long as you actually reside/live in the space or very close to it, your structures will be relatively unaffected by not having mails. If someone goes to attack anything, because you actually are in the area you will know about it due to seeing them in local and other things like, using the POS/warping to the structures.
discordigant
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-04-25 11:41:40 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
discordigant wrote:
Perhaps you need to for ill experienced people like me, i have not a lot of null experience but on the WH front i do find the tactical information on my opponent useful as not everyone will tower bash or invade a hole. Knowing that they have no experience in a tower bash i find to be relevant.


Basically the way the current mechanic works is if anyone attacks your tower, the tower instantly sends a mail to the tower owner that it is under attack. That mail is very specific on tower location, exact ship attacking it and who is flying said ship. This allows large alliances/null power blocks to project tower coverage far and wide on valuable moons and such. All without having to actually occupy/live in the space.

These towers have alts logged off at them. The very moment you attack one, the alt logs in and adjusts the amount of strontium to allow the tower to come out of reinforcement mode at a time that is suitable for the power block to assemble a massive force to ensure you are not able to take the moon.

Another bad side effect of structure mails is AFK empires or Road Trip empires. There is nothing you can do while they are gone to threaten their space. Want to drop a SBU to start the process of taking a system that is claimed by some far distant empire that never lives there, but has sov? The moment you drop it, a mail is sent out with all the details. That distant empire is notified, massive armada is formed and before that SBU on-lines, they have trans-versed the galaxy (lol power projection) in no time at all.

In closing; structure mails is one of several cancers of how null operates. Total and complete favoritism of power blocks and gives a giant middle finger to anyone who is not part of a power block. As long as you actually reside/live in the space or very close to it, your structures will be relatively unaffected by not having mails. If someone goes to attack anything, because you actually are in the area you will know about it due to seeing them in local and other things like, using the POS/warping to the structures.



My bad i thought you were referring to kill mails for structures.
Kyros Xero
Xuronautics
#18 - 2012-04-25 19:59:22 UTC
I can definitely agree with your posted goals - all important things to accomplish with any POS rewrite.

In particular I like the idea of having parts of POS' be vulnerable to small gangs and creating pvp opportunities, however I'm curious if you have any thoughts on how to accomplish that while still allowing the POS to have meaningful defenses against larger groups?

POS Layered Defenses: "Panic" mode and defense-automation arrays
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-04-25 21:20:07 UTC
It could be cool if the pos system were designed with "public poses" in mind, like POCOs.

I remember when there ISS ouposts access was set public, it would be cool if the new system were designed in order to make this policy convenient.

Another unrelated thing: the efficiency of refining modules could be revised...
Kelvan Hemanseh
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#20 - 2012-04-25 23:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelvan Hemanseh
A question for you here Two Step, enabling docking in a POS along with these other upgrades seems to marginalize outposts. If POSes got these upgrade what would you have done to outposts so they retain some role?
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