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Time to Diversify Tech 1 Industrials?
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Cunane Jeran
#1 - 2011-09-29 12:07:22 UTC
It's arguably the most used ship class in the game, and yet its so stagnant for tech 1, what am I talking about? Industrials.

There are 12 of them, all with the exact same rolls, and naturally this leaves some at the bottom of the pointless pile.

Maybe it's time to add some diversity to the range, Not with bonuses but the stats themselves. For example, adding a lot higher agility for the Iteron Mk1 (and maybe Mk2), Wreathe, Badger and Sigil at the cost of cargo space (I'm thinking 6 second align with 3x agility rigs and 2,300m3 as a ballpark figure) Giving a safer easy access LowSec suitable hauler (which isn't better than the tech 2 variants)

Yes it would have the knock on effect of making suicide ganking slighter harder, but maybe its time to make them work for their tears in HighSec but it would also give the lesser used ships a new lease of life while filling a niche.

Anyway just musing. Any thoughts on the matter folks?
1-Up Mushroom
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-09-29 12:26:25 UTC
I also think they need some diversity. Would like the see the requirements for the Amarr ones changed. You only need Amarr Indy I to pilot both, wut?
5 Days In A Week... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Hemispheres On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!
Skorpynekomimi
#3 - 2011-09-29 13:46:48 UTC
The Wreathe isn't useless. It's faster to align than my Mammoth, only 100k a hull, and aligns and warps in under 10 seconds with correct use of an afterburner.

Although, it would be nice to have an industrial that doesn't need to use undock bookmarks to get to certain gates from certain stations.

Economic PVP
Zeerover
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2011-09-29 15:28:41 UTC
Your post has some merits. I've long felt there should be more variety in the transport divisions.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Qrwa2.png[/img]
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-09-29 16:05:23 UTC
there is no need for more indy transport ships

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-09-29 18:22:25 UTC
They are haulers, what else do they need?


Now. I would almost pay AUR for things like, being able to put my Corp logo or ad on the side of my iteron. Or how about advertising revenue "buy quafe cola!"
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#7 - 2011-09-29 18:35:58 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
The Wreathe isn't useless. It's faster to align than my Mammoth, only 100k a hull, and aligns and warps in under 10 seconds with correct use of an afterburner.

Although, it would be nice to have an industrial that doesn't need to use undock bookmarks to get to certain gates from certain stations.



I heard Dramiels aren't bad for that.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Cunane Jeran
#8 - 2011-09-29 23:23:03 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
there is no need for more indy transport ships


Never said more, just a rework of what we have :P
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#9 - 2011-09-29 23:46:50 UTC
Yeah, these ships have been in the game since 2003, and were conceived to become something more like the barges we have today. That's why they have so many mid slots and CPU TF. They were intended to fit industrial modules specific for industrials, but which were never introduced.

So they have been ripe for a major redesign for years, as the purpose for which they were made was taken over by new ship designs.

A larger range of cargo capacity is needed across tiers, allowing the highest tier industrials to carry up to around 80,000m3 with rigs and expanders. The lower tier industrials should receive higher agility in exchange for reduced cargo capacity.

I don't know why Gallente has 5 industrial tiers, while the other races have only 2. Might have something to do with old lore regarding the Gallente being a trading/consumer-oriented society. But that lore has been disregarded for a long time. The Caldari were given the highest capacity freighters.

The class should be renamed to "Standard Cargo Vessels." 1 mid slot for prop mod, 1 high slot for cloak, and a varying number of low slots for expanders or nanos, and adjust pg/tf to accomodate the new roles. And they should get a small drone bay, max 25m3 for the highest tier Gallente cargo vessel.
Sassaniak
Deadspace Zombie Factory
#10 - 2011-09-30 00:47:54 UTC
Guillame Herschel wrote:
Yeah, these ships have been in the game since 2003, and were conceived to become something more like the barges we have today. That's why they have so many mid slots and CPU TF. They were intended to fit industrial modules specific for industrials, but which were never introduced.

So they have been ripe for a major redesign for years, as the purpose for which they were made was taken over by new ship designs.

A larger range of cargo capacity is needed across tiers, allowing the highest tier industrials to carry up to around 80,000m3 with rigs and expanders. The lower tier industrials should receive higher agility in exchange for reduced cargo capacity.

(1)

I don't know why Gallente has 5 industrial tiers, while the other races have only 2. Might have something to do with old lore regarding the Gallente being a trading/consumer-oriented society. But that lore has been disregarded for a long time. The Caldari were given the highest capacity freighters.

(2)

The class should be renamed to "Standard Cargo Vessels." 1 mid slot for prop mod, 1 high slot for cloak, and a varying number of low slots for expanders or nanos, and adjust pg/tf to accomodate the new roles. And they should get a small drone bay, max 25m3 for the highest tier Gallente cargo vessel.

(3)




1 No, and really i do mean no. there should be a level that people want to train to, new ships and new ship classes to open up. if i could move 80k in a t1 industrial i never would have gotten an orca, and then i never would have done a few of the other things orcas are good for. having plateaus is good in a game as well as having new heights to scale. your suggestions here make sense if they were only for older players trying to think of uses for ship classes they out grew. but not so much for a new player looking at Transport ships or orcas. while i would have liked a higher cargo spaced ship at the beginning of the game, it should be recognized that these are some of the first ships that a player is able to use. and as such should not be so overwhelmingly over powered as a 80k Or even two steps down .. 40k hauler, remember jet cans are 27k, scale plays a big part in this. you sir should be using an orca. or a transport ship/


(2) 5 tiers because we are awesome, and they all have their uses, most of them pretty niche, but they do have uses. also the lower end ittys have better speed and agility then the higher ones.

(3) wut? all races get drones on their industrials? battle badgers go away? t1 industrials all get cloaks? i cant fit a salvager/tractor to my industrials any more? Wh groups lose their back up scanners , and hundreds of noobs loose their first afk miners.

...............................................................................

Sometimes, you all make me very disappointed.
pussnheels
Viziam
#11 - 2011-09-30 08:44:47 UTC
Why change them, they all do their job perfectly and indeed the wreathe and sigil are really nimble but have limited cargospace

True why do gallente need 5 different ones , probably indeed something to do with eve lore same questions can be asked why minmatar need 3 different types

In my opinio they don't need to be changed they all do their job perfectly and some types you can tank better than others others are more nimble and even others have a huge cargo hold

Of course the amarrians are a piece of art



I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-09-30 10:05:21 UTC
Hauling wise I'd rather have a new ship between industrial and freighter without all the mining stuff (and skill requirements) that an Orca has. There's still a big gap between 50k and 700k m3. IRL that situation would be unthinkable.
Suddenly NinetyDrakes
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-09-30 16:39:29 UTC
I'd sure like to see a T1 hauler with tiny space but a cruiser/bc grid and slot layout, maybe a few small bonused guns. I just get the feeling that a hauler that can sort of fight off a frigate that attacks it would make for some fun encounters.

Although obviously if you're seriously hauling something then the only acceptable solution is to never get caught.
NoNah
Hyper-Nova
#14 - 2011-09-30 16:58:28 UTC
Cathy Drall wrote:
Hauling wise I'd rather have a new ship between industrial and freighter without all the mining stuff (and skill requirements) that an Orca has. There's still a big gap between 50k and 700k m3. IRL that situation would be unthinkable.


Granted that gap really isn't there.

Itty 5/Impel gets just under 50k including cans.

Orcas get what, 140k cargo you can put whatever in, plus a seperate bay for ore and one for ships.

Then one step up from that you have JF's whom carry 270-370k m3

then you have the 700k freighters.

I don't really see a need to change industrials at all, no, they might not be insanely linear but the differences are miniscule and there are no real balance issues involved. All 4 races have reason to train for a freighter or their transport ships.

If there were to be more ships implemented for the hauling capacity I'd really be more interested in specialized ships. IE an intie style hauler with a 5m3 corp hangar. A ship moving ship with 1mil m3 ship maint bay, or even better 2-3 1 mil ship maint bay(if technically at all possible). A ship with a bonus similiar to the snake set for smuggling, hell even the infamous decoys that's always spoken of.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#15 - 2011-09-30 16:59:20 UTC
Suddenly NinetyDrakes wrote:
I'd sure like to see a T1 hauler with tiny space but a cruiser/bc grid and slot layout, maybe a few small bonused guns. I just get the feeling that a hauler that can sort of fight off a frigate that attacks it would make for some fun encounters.

Although obviously if you're seriously hauling something then the only acceptable solution is to never get caught.



We like to call those "Cruisers", we actually have a good number of them in the game already.



Actually, 235 DPS and 17k EHP while still holding over 1.6k m3 isn't that horrible if you want to surprise someone, and there's decent space in there too.

[Exequror, Cargo]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I

Hammerhead II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
Kellyl
Integrity.
#16 - 2011-09-30 19:49:12 UTC
I like the idea of looking at the roles of T1 indy's, they haven't been changed for years...


How about:

Each race has at lease 2 indies, so one gets an ore bay (but no cargohold, or very small cargohold). Ore bay capacity is roughly double what t1 indies have today, the other indy stays the same.

Bingo, one hauler for moving ore around, one for items and minerals. Gallente get 2 of each? 5 indies wtf.
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#17 - 2011-09-30 22:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Guillame Herschel
Sassaniak wrote:
you sir should be using an orca. or a transport ship


An Orca requires skills that have nothing to do with cargo hauling. You need Leadership skills, Science skills, Mining skills. It's a bunch of wasted skillbooks and time if you only want a bigger hauler. It's also missing the point. My suggestion was for rebalancing the Industrial class, which have not been rebalanced since the original role they were intended for was given to other ships. Your suggestion is instead to use a different ship in a role it wasn't designed for.

Uhh.. what?

eta: also , Transport ships have lower cargo capacity than the T1 hulls. So that doesn't work, either.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-10-01 00:48:45 UTC
An Exequror fully fitted for cargo can carry about 2800m3 IIRC, and you still get drones and guns and mids.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2011-10-01 08:02:16 UTC
I want a weapon slot on deep space transportsStraight
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#20 - 2011-10-01 10:01:57 UTC
NoNah wrote:
Then one step up from that you have JF's whom carry 270-370k m3

It's a bit strange to buy an expensive T2 freighter to fill the gap between indy and freighter. Or have to train mining and leadership skills if you just want to transport some stuff.

We steel need a medium sized "normal" T1 hauler.
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