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L4 mission running (EDIT: In a Raven)
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Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-04-25 10:08:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Haruki Yanumano
Hi I'm fairly new here, got a Drake and have been running l3 missions like a boss. Now I finally got the skillset for a (poor man's) entry Raven for l4 missions. Would this be a sufficient setup: (yes I know there are better setups at BattleClinic, I'm levelling towards them, but I wanna start mission-grinding as soon as possible):


[Raven, MW Raven Entry]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


I know some ppl might say it's stupid to mount a MW drive, but I have found that the AI of the NPC's in l3 missions is so that you can always MW until you are out of range of the NPC's and then bombard them with missiles from long range. Works like a charm, and the NPC's mostly don't move towards you but just sit still and wait to die. Sometimes there's a stasis turret or two that you can take out really fast, so you can MW away all you want. Is this the same in l4 missions?
Eighty One
Sacred Sacrifice
#2 - 2012-04-25 10:33:09 UTC
Well Raven dose not Tank like a drake so fit will probably Diaf but keeping distance is a good plan so that may work try it out and report back.

I like to use

[Raven, pvefun]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Cryissa
Caldari Navy Operations
#3 - 2012-04-25 10:38:14 UTC
Haruki Yanumano wrote:
Hi I'm fairly new here, got a Drake and have been running l3 missions like a boss. Now I finally got the skillset for a (poor man's) entry Raven for l4 missions. Would this be a sufficient setup: (yes I know there are better setups at BattleClinic, I'm levelling towards them, but I wanna start mission-grinding as soon as possible):


[Raven, MW Raven Entry]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


I know some ppl might say it's stupid to mount a MW drive, but I have found that the AI of the NPC's in l3 missions is so that you can always MW until you are out of range of the NPC's and then bombard them with missiles from long range. Works like a charm, and the NPC's mostly don't move towards you but just sit still and wait to die. Sometimes there's a stasis turret or two that you can take out really fast, so you can MW away all you want. Is this the same in l4 missions?



There are many fits and many people will give you advice. Just a quick look over your fit I read and experienced that 5th and 4th Ballistic Control do not give you enough return to be viable. I can't remember the link so perhaps someone has it where it shows the effects in a % the decline after fitting the 2nd 3rd and so on.

Nothing wrong in a MW Drive if you wish to zipp about but for me normally I drop it for more tank or hardener or maybe even a Target Painter.

Get to Tech II launchers as quick as you can to take the advance ammo.

Also get those Rig slots populated.

Thats my little bit of advice. Good luck and fly safe :)
Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-04-25 10:40:45 UTC
Alright, I'll try it out and see how it goes. This is the setup from BattleClinic I am levelling towards, but still got quite a few skills on level 4 and/or 5 to get:


[Raven, Perfect Starter Lv4 Mission raven]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
Lojak 2501
Unitum Investigationis et Progressus
#5 - 2012-04-25 10:43:35 UTC
the reason why most dont fit a MWD for a mission boat is due to the reason that most missions take place in a deadspace pocket and that module cant be used in there but ABs can. i cant say if this has recently changed

also, dont fit more than 3 damage mods due to the fact the damage bonus that you would get from it would be so small that you really cant justify the slot usage. rigs are also a must.
what i like do is grossly over tank. if i cant tank the whole room for an extended firefight at a dead stand still im not happy, but thats my personal play style.
Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-04-25 10:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Haruki Yanumano
Thanks for the advice, dumping the 4th and 5th ballistic control unit. I guess it is more effective to be able to just sit still and tank in respects to doing missions fast and getting more isk/pr. minute (which I am of course interested in). I haven't seen any l1-3 missions where MWD's are barred, but it might be different with l4's. I'll try this setup out and see if it works, while levelling towards better tanking-skills.

EDIT: How about this setup then: (And by the way I am hesitant to populate the rig slots until I got the skills to run a really good setup, so I can compensate or strenghten relevant areas with rigs when I got access to the ship's full potential)


[Raven, MW Raven Entry 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I

Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

When running the invulnerability field alone it is stable at 61%
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#7 - 2012-04-25 10:48:27 UTC
Lojak 2501 wrote:
the reason why most dont fit a MWD for a mission boat is due to the reason that most missions take place in a deadspace pocket and that module cant be used in there but ABs can. i cant say if this has recently changed

also, dont fit more than 3 damage mods due to the fact the damage bonus that you would get from it would be so small that you really cant justify the slot usage. rigs are also a must.
what i like do is grossly over tank. if i cant tank the whole room for an extended firefight at a dead stand still im not happy, but thats my personal play style.


Mwds now work in missions. However the mwd capacitor penalty and the active shield tank Raven don't work well together in most cases especially when your DPS is less than impeccable...
Vai Tanis
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-04-25 11:26:57 UTC
You need Rigor rigs on the Raven or your cruise missiles will apply less and less damage to anything under a battleship, which in turn means it'll take an eternity to finish missions

I'd personally also drop the MWD for an afterburner, you should be fast enough to keep range on BS without inflating your sig radius or eating all your cap

I'd suggest also if you're comfortable with keeping track of things dropping your two LSEs and the inv field for an X-large shield booster, boost amplifier and a Cap booster. You'll need drones as well, lights and mediums to deal with frigates and cruisers too small and fast for your missiles to apply their damage to and drop the salvager in favour of getting a destroyer fit with tractors and salvagers to swap to after the mission

Train for T2 light drones first though, you'll need them in L4s to kill web/scram frigates as fast as possible.
Alan Shroue
Money Never Sleeps
#9 - 2012-04-25 11:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alan Shroue
How has your passive tank been working out for ya?

I've gone for an active tank as even with correct aggro management the incoming seems to me that it would just overpower a passive tank.

You still haven't filled your rig slots, i use cap rechargers as the active tank takes all my cap but if i was stable (Gist c-type X-large approx 700mill) i would use some missile buffs eg Large calefaction / flare or rigor i find cruisers take to longest to kill, sig radius blar blar blar use drones for the frigs. Maybe a drone interface instead of your salvager could help getting those targets that like to stay at range. Only because it takes an eternity to salvage the mission and the rewards just don't seem worth it.

In addition i found two Power Diagnostic systems II in the lows helped alot more than cap flux coils, i got about 5s cap off the coils and 15s off the PDS's in addition to the shield bonuses. No contest for me.
Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-04-25 11:41:41 UTC
Well the passive tank has worked like a charm on my Drake in combination with the MWD - if things get too hot, I just scoot away and wait for shields to regen while I keep bombarding targets at 45-50 km. The AI and the NPC's in general in L3 missions aren't really able to counter this, because you can easily get out of range of webbing frigates and kill them off while they try to chase you. Only problem is neut and stasis towers, but they are easy kills with Heavy Missiles.

I am going to do a bit of experiment with the Raven, so I would be sad to lock it down to certain rigs right away. I got my eyes on a torpedo PVP-fit I might ultimately cross over to once I have sufficient skills, and that setup didnt use rigor rigs. Before that though I want to go try out active tanking, as most of the approved BattleClinic setups goes this way, but I am waiting until I can get T2 modules.
Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone
Ironworks Coalition
#11 - 2012-04-25 11:48:33 UTC
Shield power relays hit cap recharge rate hard, and you have a MWD fitted too. Ravens tend to work best as active tanking beasts but if you insist on going the "fly it like a Drake" route then you may as well fit Field Purgers; but I warn you, the amount of DPS you experience from a lvl 4 is a bit of a jump... from lvl 1 to 2 isn't so bad, same with 2 to 3. But 3 to 4 is a huge difference and I strongly advise you fit the ship according to its strengths, passive shield recharge not exactly being one of them.

A Drake gets bonuses to shield resistances and has one of the highest shield recharge rates in the game, and just about gets through lvl 4s, and most definitely struggles with the higher difficulty missions. And you're proposing to take a ship with no shield bonuses and a significantly lower shield recharge rate into the same scenario. So I wish you luck, but I do not see how it can possibly work.

The Gaming MoD - retro to modern, console to MMO, I blog about it if it's a game and I'm interested in it. Yes, I play games other than Eve and I don't care if you think I'm wrong.
Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-04-25 12:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Haruki Yanumano
Alright thanks, I am looking for input being a new player. Also is there any benefit in rigor rigs in relation to torpedos? Does it improve the ability to hit smaller targets in any significant way when using torpedos not suited for that at all to begin with?

And if I dump the "haha I am cleverer than NPC's and use a MWD to troll them" approach, would this be a decent setup to survive l4's (please have in mind that I'm working on my tanking skills):

[Raven, Non-MW Raven Entry]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Flux I
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Flux I

Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
5a Prototype Shield Support I
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


EDIT: Also are there any mission-npc's that use warp scramblers?
Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-04-25 14:06:27 UTC
Ok so I tried the non-mwd fit, showed up at the mission spot and almost got killed even though I had booster running and everything. Then I tried out the mwd, almost got killed again but survived long enough to get to a confortable range, so my drones could kill all frigates while I shoot at the BS's. Problem is it takes me 10 minutes to kill 1 Centus Savage Lord (I timed it). Can anything be done about that, besides from spending weeks getting T2 launchers?
Almrausch
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-04-25 14:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Almrausch
Cruise Missiles are terrible
low-SP Raven is bad. Even high-SP Raven is something that is not that great.
Combine these and you get an even worse result.

Get your skills trained up. Not necessarily T2, but also the missile support skills.

You will start to see improvement. But it takes time.

If you have spare money you can go for Caldari Navy Raven, which boosts your dps a bit since it can mount another launcher. (iirc)

This will obviously be an expensive loss and if you are inexperienced with lvl4s there is a good chance you do lose it sooner or later if you dont read up on the mission. (eve-survival.org)

Also, I personally wouldnt go with less than 4 damage mods. The boost from the 4th might not be great, but it still adds up.


edit: get rid of the Large Shield Extender. Use more resistance mods. Sansha will tear through that little bit of extra buffer with your low shield resists.
It is probably obvious, but just in case: Adjust resist mods to the mission/npc
Ishanmae
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-04-25 14:19:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishanmae
Haruki Yanumano wrote:
Ok so I tried the non-mwd fit, showed up at the mission spot and almost got killed even though I had booster running and everything. Then I tried out the mwd, almost got killed again but survived long enough to get to a confortable range, so my drones could kill all frigates while I shoot at the BS's. Problem is it takes me 10 minutes to kill 1 Centus Savage Lord (I timed it). Can anything be done about that, besides from spending weeks getting T2 launchers?



There's quite a few missile support skills that can help you with that.

I advise checking the certifications (the Core certificates, Active shield tanking and Missile Control amongst others) as they can give you an idea of what to aim for.

Last but not least, I'd consider running L3s for a while longer, until you have the proper support skills to make the above fits work for you, you'll make more cash running 2-3 L3s per hour in your Drake than you would taking 1.5 hours per L4 in your Raven.


EDIT: Considering you started playing less than a month ago (2012.03.31), I'd keep training before jumping into L4s ;)
Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-25 14:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Haruki Yanumano
Alright, I'm gonna try a fourth and then get a cruise missile certificate to ensure I get the proper skills. The first 30 seconds of the mission were super dangerous, but first thing I always do is align to my home base. But now when they are at a range I got nothing to fear, my cap and shield recharges before they get into range, and then I just scoot out to longer ranges, so right now its totally safe, but it does take an awful long time killing stuff.

EDIT: Yes, I know I should wait, I just wanna get rich fast and l3's pose no challenge whatsoever in the Drake.
Almrausch
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-04-25 14:28:55 UTC
You wont get rich doing lvl4s to be honest.
Like I suggested: Read up on missions on eve-survival.org or whatever and make sure to kill any potentially scrambling/webbing frigates, then you should be fine.
Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-04-25 14:33:21 UTC
Are there scrambling ships in l4 missions - ships that keep you from warping out to safety???
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2012-04-25 14:51:19 UTC
Haruki Yanumano wrote:
Are there scrambling ships in l4 missions - ships that keep you from warping out to safety???


Yes but not in all missions. Webbers are quite common though.

The correct response is to bring T2 Hobgoblins.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-04-25 15:02:09 UTC
Alright thanks for all the help. I should check out the survival guide. By the way I encountered the first foe I can't kill - a tracking disrupting Centum Loyal Execrator Cruiser. My Vespa drones can't do any damage to it either:-( How much would a rigor rig help?
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