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Shield damage type compensation
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Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-04-23 01:01:14 UTC
I have a friend telling me that the shield damage type compensation skills (IE EM Shield Compensation) have an effect beyond the one thats stated in the info.

To active shield hardeners: 3% bonus per skill level to Shield EM resistance when the modules are not active
To passive shield hardeners: 5% bonus per skill level to Shield EM resistance

Im being told theres an additional resistance bonus added to the active hardeners.

Can anyone prove or refute this claim?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Flakey Foont
#2 - 2012-04-23 02:54:04 UTC
Won't your friend tell you the secret hidden effect?

Of course there is nothing more than stated in the info.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2012-04-23 05:29:29 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
To active shield hardeners: 3% bonus per skill level to Shield EM resistance when the modules are not active
To passive shield hardeners: 5% bonus per skill level to Shield EM resistance

Confirming this is all the skills do.

I have them trained to 5 because I use passive amps a lot.
Dato Koppla
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#4 - 2012-04-24 02:52:17 UTC
They do only that, they aren't used that much though, I have EM to IV and the rest to III
Riven Aleem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-04-24 13:09:41 UTC
A Tech 2 Amplifier with lvl 5 skills is 46.875% resistance increas
A Tech 2 Hardener is 55

If you have the time to train the skills, the capacitor-free versions might be quite useful, Allowing you to run your Booster longer
They only take a week each to get to 5
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-04-24 20:03:41 UTC
Riven Aleem wrote:
A Tech 2 Amplifier with lvl 5 skills is 46.875% resistance increas
A Tech 2 Hardener is 55

If you have the time to train the skills, the capacitor-free versions might be quite useful, Allowing you to run your Booster longer
They only take a week each to get to 5



On my main Im running a passive tanked Rattlesnake that can snore through lvl 4s.
So during hulkageddon I can mission instead of mining.
Yes, its insanely overtanked, Im in no hurry to make isks. I dont really understand that isk/hour mentality anyways... why the hurry? vOv

Ive got like 100+ days before I can fit and fly the ship im looking at anyways, not like I dont have the time to waste.

[Rattlesnake, proof against fools]

4x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)
2x Drone Link Augmentor II

2x Large Shield Extender II
3x Shield Recharger II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II

6x Shield Power Relay II

3x Large Core Defense Field Purger II

5x Ogre II

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2012-04-25 02:55:44 UTC
My alt's Rattlesnake:

[Rattlesnake, Passive]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Pithum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Shield Transporter II
Imperial Navy Large Energy Transfer Array

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II


Bouncer II x5
Garde II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Ogre II x5
Ethyls
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-04-25 07:24:48 UTC
I, on the other hand, confirm that they have an effect on active hardeners when the modules are activated too.
Wanted to know if it did, so I undocked, activated my hardener. My explosive shield res at this very moment was 78%. After a level in explosive shield compensation, it was 79%.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#9 - 2012-04-28 10:55:45 UTC
I demand 3d graphs with primary colours before I invest my hard earned space seconds on further training with these skills...
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-04-28 14:06:57 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
I demand 3d graphs with primary colours before I invest my hard earned space seconds on further training with these skills...


Yeah I know, my bad I broke the cardinal rule of EVE-O never ask questions and expect anything but trolls. One can hope though

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Goran Konjich
Krompany
#11 - 2012-05-04 11:27:41 UTC
Rattlesnake thread ? This is one of the stupidest thread on forums. Especially now P

I'm a diplomat. Sometimes i throw 425mm wide briefcases at enemy. Such is EVE.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2012-05-04 15:49:52 UTC
Ethyls wrote:
I, on the other hand, confirm that they have an effect on active hardeners when the modules are activated too.
Wanted to know if it did, so I undocked, activated my hardener. My explosive shield res at this very moment was 78%. After a level in explosive shield compensation, it was 79%.


This is absolutely untrue. There's some other factor you're missing. I don't know what it is (it could just be a display bug; I get one sometimes on resists that are halfway between two numbers) but shield comps don't do a thing with hardeners off.

Are you sure you didn't have an inactive invuln during this test?
Orlacc
#13 - 2012-05-04 19:27:31 UTC
Rename the Rattlesnake "The Narcoleptic"

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Ethyls
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-05-04 20:02:36 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Ethyls wrote:
I, on the other hand, confirm that they have an effect on active hardeners when the modules are activated too.
Wanted to know if it did, so I undocked, activated my hardener. My explosive shield res at this very moment was 78%. After a level in explosive shield compensation, it was 79%.


This is absolutely untrue. There's some other factor you're missing. I don't know what it is (it could just be a display bug; I get one sometimes on resists that are halfway between two numbers) but shield comps don't do a thing with hardeners off.

Are you sure you didn't have an inactive invuln during this test?


Surely you mean "on" instead of "off".

And, yeah, I'm pretty sure it worked and that I had nothing else that could've influenced the result. Didn't even drink that night, eh.

I'll try it again on an alt.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2012-05-05 04:35:01 UTC
Ethyls wrote:
Surely you mean "on" instead of "off".

And, yeah, I'm pretty sure it worked and that I had nothing else that could've influenced the result. Didn't even drink that night, eh.

I'll try it again on an alt.


Erm. Yes. I swear to god I've fail posted more than done so successfully for the past week.

Bottom line: I'm very sure on this one. Try it again. There had to be some sort of confounding variable.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-05-05 09:26:49 UTC
Ethyls wrote:
I, on the other hand, confirm that they have an effect on active hardeners when the modules are activated too.
Wanted to know if it did, so I undocked, activated my hardener. My explosive shield res at this very moment was 78%. After a level in explosive shield compensation, it was 79%.


That would seem to imply you get two seperate bonuses from the one module, instead of the value of the bonus just changing.

At 78% resists, you take 22% damage from any incoming Exp damage - if you get a 3% passive resist, you take .97*22 = 21.34, with some rounding, that will display a 79% resist...

However.... I must ask, is that the only resist module you had mounted?
I'm pretty sure I already tried this experiment, and I did not see any increase.
Did you have an invulnerability field mounted as well? If you only turned on the Explosive hardener, you would still be getting the higher passive resist from the invuln field.

The comp skills do affect the invuln fields too, not just the damage type specific hardeners.
(so at all 5s, any invuln field can function as a passive 15% omni resist module, ie as good as an EANM I or ANP meta 4/T2 with no comp skills trained)
I've considered full passive Rattler fits that use Invuln fields that wouldn't even be cap stable with the hardeners on - but the purpose of the hardener(s) would be for the passive 15% rainbow resists.
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#17 - 2012-05-05 11:24:12 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
I demand 3d graphs with primary colours before I invest my hard earned space seconds on further training with these skills...


Yeah I know, my bad I broke the cardinal rule of EVE-O never ask questions and expect anything but trolls. One can hope though



if the passive skills worked in any way, shape or form with active it would be a no brainer train these for 0.0 alliance fleets (most places require certain skill levels). There are not required. in the 3 homes I had in the past. As they don't work with active mods when turned on. Not a shield cap pilot, not a needed skill.


Your friend is trolling you, so you will get troll responses asking about it, Proof of validity, out of 100+ drake hate threads this effect has never been coverered before. Drake haterz dig deep to get dirt on an otherwise average ship...they never dug this up. BC 5 25% boost + level 5 boost of passive comps applied to active mods turned on......would generate some whines with a drake.

Then you factor in the 2nd most complained abou BC is the shield tanked cane. If that ship got bonus to active tank shields from passive mod trainings we would be hearing about in its 100+ nerf cane threads as well.
Boomhaur
#18 - 2012-05-08 20:13:10 UTC
Misanthra wrote:


Your friend is trolling you, so you will get troll responses asking about it, Proof of validity, out of 100+ drake hate threads this effect has never been coverered before. Drake haterz dig deep to get dirt on an otherwise average ship...they never dug this up. BC 5 25% boost + level 5 boost of passive comps applied to active mods turned on......would generate some whines with a drake.


That is the strangest way to prove something I have yet to seen, and I will accept it. That and well I am a hardcore Nighthawk pilot and Drake pilot for several years now and I bet I would have noticed if they affected active shield hardeners when their turned on. But to sum it up, listen to everyone else, it only does what it the skill says nothing more, nothing less. I recomend bringing it all up to III, and IV if your into shield tanking a lot for those times you want to use a passive shield amplifier.

Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you.
Symeon Stark
Solenus Directive
#19 - 2012-05-08 20:52:58 UTC
I sometimes think that people start to over think the shield hardening skills becasue of how strange the Tactical Shield Manipulation skill is with its reduction in damage bleeding through your shield under 25%.

I regreted training that skill up to level 5 but I am half was through training these 4 skills up to 5 and have been happy with how they improve my passive tank and free up more cap for boosters and the like.

I am hoping to get my effective HPs over 70,000 on my Drake when they are all trained up.