Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The universe is just as competitive, planets fighting for orbital dominance, suns trying to burn for as long as possible. Galaxies eating each other is it fair that a larger sun eats a smaller one? Or that even in cosmetically sized numbers maybe all those random electrons on your processor are doing thier job just fine spewing out numbers that are seemingly random but to the grand scheme of the universe is just too plain predictable?

You cannot simply put rules on the universe, becuase every time you do nature finds a way to get around it and we're just idiots to go do'h later on.

Also if you are a real statician a coin flipping doesnt mean you are gauranteed a heads for every two flips you make, despite the 50% chances. Just like a drop rate of 1% doesnt mean you are gauranteed to have one of those items after a 100 attempts. Just its extremly unlikely to go 1000 times without getting at least 1-10.

Further iteration, what would cause more damage? Me shooting your reactor housing, or an attena? How about a shot that didnt hit the armor just right? That perfect angle where the shot just bounches off? It happens the whole reason why ships in eve are not exactly round it makes it extremly difficult for land a round on a ship with unpredicable angles. Where a shot that hits exactly perpindicular with the armor is bound to cause some hurt unless it went though a wingbit or something. Eve guns are not all that accurate despite the extremly high speeds, gravity, active electronic warfare (since there isnt a single ship in eve with a signature radius the size of its actual ship, there is some form of electronic stealthing going on trying to throw off enemy targeting computers) and other factors seem to skew into the accuracy of weapons. Maybe the mounts are lose, hardware isnt all that great.

First, you said that "different materials used in the car, varying degrees of quality, even within the same batch of cars by the same manufacturer." This is completely true. I worked in manufacturing for 6 years and know that well. However, the "varying degrees of quality" come from the operator's performance and attention to detail when he's making his product. I know you are just going to chase the rabbit back and say "Well, that's true but not all things made are made directly by people." This is also true. However, who designed that machine to perform it's role? A person did. A fallible, imperfect person.

Second, I never said that a car was a "completely predictable machine 100% of the time." This fact is true, for one reason a human can never know all aspects and every fact there is to know about his or her car. Why? because they are not all the same. Why? because people make cars.

Third, i completely agreed with your last statement that no matter how hard you try you just can't keep a machine from breaking down. Why? because we never do everything right. There is always some mistake , major or minor, in every step of the way from when the ore was pulled out of the group to when it becomes a complete car, mistakes by people.

Conclusion. all the "randomness" or "abnormal" events (no such thing since "normal" is a mean of all the abnormals) occur not only in a single environment with one person. It is the combination of everyone interacting with each other that makes things so uncertain.

I don't understand the fear of things becoming "boring" and "predictable" in EVE if this was implemented. The uncertainty comes from the person.

Finally, a good argument.

how many differnt kind of units are in star craft followed by how many upgrades they can get?

then give me how many different ships are in eve
and how many modules you can fit onto them
and how many ways you can fit those modules onto them
then how many ways player skills are taken to account on ship effectiveness per level
then how many ways a player implant loadout can be made
and then sprinkle on a bit of booster dust on top
and if you want to include teams how many sorts of booster effects that could come into play
Now after you get that number, balance all of them.

You see why eve cant go E-Sport?

Here let me help there are about 15,000 different ships in eve.

Null point, wow has arena showdowns at blizzcon every year too but you dont really see wow listed as an e-sport like halo or star craft would.

if you want to use eve players as an example

The chances of me running into somone who will hate my guts just enough or just dont give a darn to victimize me verses me getting strungh by by pirates only to be stopped by thier leader telling his boys to let me go because Im 'famous' is going to be just as random as my damage.

I dont like the idea of making things predictable, make it seem childish as color in the lines picture. The more random eve gets the more organic it becomes. the more living and breathing it is, never knowing what eve will do next is what eve really is.

Thanks but we already have enough straw men here

Clearly this argument is about regulating randomization generated by the game not generated by the players.

In fact player generated randomization is what makes any game good.

When modeling complex social systems in computers we normally will add "random" noise to simulate complex interactions of variables and components. Actual calculation is considered too expensive and generally speaking the noise yields very satisfactory results.

Ever read about the battle between the Hood, a few other Royal Navy ships and the Bismarck?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Bismarck

A "Lucky" shot early in the engagement hit the Hood's ammo store and destroyed the whole ship, the randomness in Eve is simply a cheap method of simulating this type of scenario.

I'm not going to talk about heisenberg's uncertainty principle,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

Needless to say to anyone but God the Universe exhibits "random" behavior.

Technically not random, because if the Universe or what ever we are in is a finite space formed from a finite spot in the past knowing that configuration and the rules to the environment means you would know everything. You just can't do this.....

99.99999999% sure might be possible though :-D

I understand the OP though, it's just in reality we are not sure of the consequences of our actions we just act in such away as to reduce the probability of an unwanted event occurring.

On the plus side 30 years from now EVE 5 will be modeled on a analogue cpu based super computer which simulates the Universe at the atomic level..... or Apes will take over the world.... ¬_¬ buy shares from Banana companies people, i should go to bed now.....

…and professional poker players are in reality just a bunch of really lucky guys.

No. The more randomness you add, the more you skill shifts towards making sure the statistics work in your favour and towards making the opponent misread, misinterpret, and fail to account for those statistics. The random factor in EVE combat is pretty darn small on the scale of things, and the methods available to fudge the numbers to your benefit are plentiful. The skill lies in knowing how to do that and how to hedge against the opponent doing the same thing.