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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Skipping the wallet API and generating hashes for donations
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Osku Rei
Pixel 6
#1 - 2012-04-23 20:17:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Osku Rei
I'm not sure if this idea has been discussed before, but here it is:

So currently when a player sends another player some isk, it shows up as a donation which has an optional field on it; all standard information.

This can be retrieved via the wallet API every 30 minutes, again standard stuff.

Many tools require a fee or charge a subscription for their service, players normally send isk to the player running the tool with a key or donation description in it (or not at all, depends on the tool) and this is processed by that tool.

This can take up to 30 minutes to be processed due to the API cached times. One way around this is to send a bulk amount of money (rather than a single payments worth) and store it in an account and then deduct the required amount at specific times, no need to mess around with timers.

Sorry if this it kinda obvious (as it is Smile)

Sometimes 30 minutes is to long Cry people want stuff now! Lol

My suggestion is that:

  • (in-game) When a player makes a donation it takes the sender and recipient's names + the amount sent, concatinates them, then hashes it which the player can then access.
  • A player made tool can then call an API with the same 3 parameters above plus the hashed key received from the player sending the donation.
  • The API call will go through the same process, hash the parameters, compare it to the received hash and return if the hash is value or not. If so then the tool knows that a donation is on its way and it can act before it actually gets the data from the wallet API pull.


What do other people think, would this be of use ? It might open up a new avenue for small, quick donations for tools and services (such as the micro lotteries and other gambling sites)

I for one would like to see this and from what I can see wouldn't be hard to implement.

Please comment / critique Big smile

*Edit: Forgot a (random) salt will need to be included that would be be supplied by the player tool.


  • So player tool provides a salt to the player
  • Player sends money
  • In the in-game interface, the user would right click on a transaction -> generate hash -> player inputs salt -> gets hashed key.
  • goes to the tool, inputs hash key.


* Edit 2: scrap the above edit, the salt could just be server side, which is refreshed each day at DT. So: right click transaction -> get hash. This can be verified by the remote API call using the same parameters as before (minus the user salt). The random salt each DT + having request limits on API calls (which CCP probably have already) would stop any brute forcing if that's even possible.

These are just thoughts, probably loads of ways of doing it :)

Next generation of lottery tracker coming soon! http://evelotterytracker.com/

Please like my post if it has helped you :)
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-04-23 20:25:21 UTC
Sounds very spoof-able. Once the hash is cracked, it's easy to generate fake transaction hashes that the service won't be able to distinguish 'till the actual transaction goes through to API. And I'm not seeing the need for it either; in a game that's played by the week or month like Eve is, waiting <30 min for your gambling fix isn't the end of the world.
Osku Rei
Pixel 6
#3 - 2012-04-23 20:42:40 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Sounds very spoof-able. Once the hash is cracked, it's easy to generate fake transaction hashes that the service won't be able to distinguish 'till the actual transaction goes through to API. And I'm not seeing the need for it either; in a game that's played by the week or month like Eve is, waiting <30 min for your gambling fix isn't the end of the world.


I'm pretty sure something like sha-254 is 'uncrackable' / no collisions found (or its something like like 2^80)

I'm sure plenty of examples can be thought of which would benefit from instant transactions.

Next generation of lottery tracker coming soon! http://evelotterytracker.com/

Please like my post if it has helped you :)
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4 - 2012-04-24 12:38:50 UTC
there's always potential for collisions...

I hear what your asking for tho, some kind of transaction with some sort of verification code, that once isk is sent,
the transaction can be verified via an api by the 3rd party in real time with out worrying about caching and the like.

I do like the idea, but i actually think ccp should consider charging rl monies for that sort of service.
or even plex, something like 1 plex per 1k transactions, that's a rough cost of 500k
or about 1.5 cents in rl monies.

in rl its typically 2-5% royalties.

its possible you could have to pay this as a transaction fee in isk based on the amount you send to use this special type of transfer service.
Osku Rei
Pixel 6
#5 - 2012-04-24 13:11:44 UTC
Osku Rei wrote:

...no collisions found (or its something like like 2^80)


I appreciate it's possible, but damn that's a big number :)

Quote:

I hear what your asking for tho, some kind of transaction with some sort of verification code, that once isk is sent,
the transaction can be verified via an api by the 3rd party in real time with out worrying about caching and the like


Exactly!


I curious to why CCP would charge for such a service? Non of their other API calls are charged as such, and I think they have recently released 'tool' API calls, as in, you give them a character ID and it gives you the character name?

I would certainly expect it would be less resource hungry than some of their other API calls that get hit a lot more often.

Next generation of lottery tracker coming soon! http://evelotterytracker.com/

Please like my post if it has helped you :)
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#6 - 2012-04-24 13:26:08 UTC
id charge because that's what we do in real life,
and as a dedicated isk transfer service with some added extra features why not?

every ones crying out for isk sinks and such.

I dont see why you should get to keep 100% of the isk transferred to you for your lottery etc,
merchant fees are a part of life and you want that added extra verification code, so why not.
Osku Rei
Pixel 6
#7 - 2012-04-24 17:43:20 UTC
GizzyBoy wrote:
id charge because that's what we do in real life,
and as a dedicated isk transfer service with some added extra features why not?

every ones crying out for isk sinks and such.

I dont see why you should get to keep 100% of the isk transferred to you for your lottery etc,
merchant fees are a part of life and you want that added extra verification code, so why not.


- Who are 'we'?
- its not a dedicated isk transfer service, its the same in-game transfer as it has been for years with an extra 'field' / a little extra functionality essentially.
- We get 100% of the isk transferred at the moment
- There is no 3rd party merchant, unless you count CCP as one, which then, they always have been.

Next generation of lottery tracker coming soon! http://evelotterytracker.com/

Please like my post if it has helped you :)
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#8 - 2012-04-25 00:40:51 UTC
Osku Rei wrote:
GizzyBoy wrote:
id charge because that's what we do in real life,
and as a dedicated isk transfer service with some added extra features why not?

every ones crying out for isk sinks and such.

I dont see why you should get to keep 100% of the isk transferred to you for your lottery etc,
merchant fees are a part of life and you want that added extra verification code, so why not.


- Who are 'we'?
- its not a dedicated isk transfer service, its the same in-game transfer as it has been for years with an extra 'field' / a little extra functionality essentially.
- We get 100% of the isk transferred at the moment
- There is no 3rd party merchant, unless you count CCP as one, which then, they always have been.




We is well I cant actually say nda's and all. (looks over shoulder)
what im thinking about actually goes 2 or more steps beyond what your thinking.
so sorry about the thread jack, but here goes


Current System
Current isk transfers,
These stay the same and dont change,
Caching in api etc is all the same, nothing changes.


Additional Secured Isk transfer services
a new addon service separate from the current system.
the key word here is SERVICE

Contains these Features:
Verifiable out of game transfers via api using a transaction reference key.
no delay via api, (except during dt / reboot)
RECURRING BILLING , yes you heard me lets do this..
Out of game evegate system, to possibly create and manage specific billing items / reporting.

Anti Fraud systems
anti auto billing spam / scam flagging (this system takes a super dim view on scams / fraud billing)
and as such has severe penalties for those that ingauge in using it as such.
possibly includes account blocking, negative wallet balances.


for these features, most people can live with a 1-5% transaction fee. or possibly a isk transfer contract creation fee (100k or more like normal contract deposit)

the recurring billing alone would make many people happy.