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The Thing That is Wrong With Eve

Author
scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#61 - 2012-04-24 05:28:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
scooter Kondur wrote:
Medium is the message.
No. A medium is a medium. A message is a message. One may carry the other but they are not the same.


…and your freedom of speech is not being infringed upon by CCP. To claim so is absurd and completely confuses what free speech is, and what the right to it actually entails.


I wiki'd it for you. Not my quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message

Consider this, what would you rather I tell you to shut up or I ignore everything you say as if you never said it. Eve is a medium, you can silence in whatever way you like but it doesn't mean what was said or thought doesn't exist. Does anyone need to even bother to make an argument that dissent is healthy and that it should be promoted? I would say that CCP has a duty to ensure that all voices are heard just as much as anyone else.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#62 - 2012-04-24 05:49:27 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
I wiki'd it for you. Not my quote.
You should probably read that a bit closer, then…

Quote:
Eve is a medium, you can silence in whatever way you like but it doesn't mean what was said or thought doesn't exist.
No, but it does mean that CCP does not want to be associated with what was said, as is their right.

Quote:
I would say that CCP has a duty to ensure that all voices are heard just as much as anyone else.
No, they don't, and more to the point, that has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Your idea of freedom of speech means that you must now go and post in every subforum on these boards that you are a complete fool and a jackass, and that I'm the smartest guy around and that if if you don't do this, you are infringing on my freedom of speech.

There's just one problem with this idea: it's completely and hilariously bonkers and it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. You see, your freedoms and rights end the instant they come in contact with my freedom and rights (and vice versa). This means that I am free not to repeat your ravings and your right to express them end with me. You do not have the right to force me to repeat them, and my not repeating them does not infringe your freedom to say it to begin with. CCP has the same right not to broadcast your rantings if they do not like them. Their decision not to do so does not infringe on your freedom to speech. You're still just as free to express yourself — you just can't force CCP to repeat what you say.

You do not have any freedom of speech on these boards, because that freedom ceases to exist the instant it touches CCP's medium of communication, and all you can hope for is that they, out of the kindness of their heart, decide to let your message pass.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Tactical Farmers
#63 - 2012-04-24 05:54:49 UTC
Scooter's argumentative flailing reminds me of somebody who can't swim and is getting increasingly desperate to stay above the water surface.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-04-24 05:56:59 UTC
Scooter Kondor for CSM 8 Chairman!

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#65 - 2012-04-24 05:57:22 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Scooter's argumentative flailing reminds me of somebody who can't swim and is getting increasingly desperate to stay above the water surface.



Thing is, if no one posted to this thread, it would of sunk down to the bottom...Unnoticed
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Tactical Farmers
#66 - 2012-04-24 06:00:47 UTC
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Scooter's argumentative flailing reminds me of somebody who can't swim and is getting increasingly desperate to stay above the water surface.



Thing is, if no one posted to this thread, it would of sunk down to the bottom...Unnoticed


Still, I find his desperate struggle to highly entertaining. Care for some popcorn?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-04-24 06:14:54 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Scooter's argumentative flailing reminds me of somebody who can't swim and is getting increasingly desperate to stay above the water surface.



Thing is, if no one posted to this thread, it would of sunk down to the bottom...Unnoticed


Still, I find his desperate struggle to highly entertaining. Care for some popcorn?


Way a-head of you!
scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-04-24 06:15:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
scooter Kondur wrote:
I wiki'd it for you. Not my quote.
You should probably read that a bit closer, then…

Quote:
Eve is a medium, you can silence in whatever way you like but it doesn't mean what was said or thought doesn't exist.
No, but it does mean that CCP does not want to be associated with what was said, as is their right.

Quote:
I would say that CCP has a duty to ensure that all voices are heard just as much as anyone else.
No, they don't, and more to the point, that has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Your idea of freedom of speech means that you must now go and post in every subforum on these boards that you are a complete fool and a jackass, and that I'm the smartest guy around and that if if you don't do this, you are infringing on my freedom of speech.

There's just one problem with this idea: it's completely and hilariously bonkers and it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. You see, your freedoms and rights end the instant they come in contact with my freedom and rights (and vice versa). This means that I am free not to repeat your ravings and your right to express them end with me. You do not have the right to force me to repeat them, and my not repeating them does not infringe your freedom to say it to begin with. CCP has the same right not to broadcast your rantings if they do not like them. Their decision not to do so does not infringe on your freedom to speech. You're still just as free to express yourself — you just can't force CCP to repeat what you say.

You do not have any freedom of speech on these boards, because that freedom ceases to exist the instant it touches CCP's medium of communication, and all you can hope for is that they, out of the kindness of their heart, decide to let your message pass.


I would suggest you reread the wiki and maybe take sometime to digest it and get a grasp for the bigger picture.

Let's live in your world where no one is allowed any medium for dissent and they are never heard. What a boring place to live. How many examples do you need of people how had to repeatedly say hey look at me I have a great idea but were passed over for years until someone took notice? Voices and ideas that offer a different outlook or change shouldn't be silenced ever. CCP has a duty to ensure that all voices are heard just like everyone else.

You know sometimes I think you are dead wrong (and it hurts my head to read it) but I still read what you say and consider it. How would you feel if no one listened? More so what if you weren't given a voice at all.
scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-04-24 06:15:53 UTC
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Scooter's argumentative flailing reminds me of somebody who can't swim and is getting increasingly desperate to stay above the water surface.



Thing is, if no one posted to this thread, it would of sunk down to the bottom...Unnoticed


Still, I find his desperate struggle to highly entertaining. Care for some popcorn?


Way a-head of you!


Your contribution to this riveting thread have been duly noted.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#70 - 2012-04-24 06:20:25 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
Tippia wrote:
scooter Kondur wrote:
I wiki'd it for you. Not my quote.
You should probably read that a bit closer, then…

Quote:
Eve is a medium, you can silence in whatever way you like but it doesn't mean what was said or thought doesn't exist.
No, but it does mean that CCP does not want to be associated with what was said, as is their right.

Quote:
I would say that CCP has a duty to ensure that all voices are heard just as much as anyone else.
No, they don't, and more to the point, that has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Your idea of freedom of speech means that you must now go and post in every subforum on these boards that you are a complete fool and a jackass, and that I'm the smartest guy around and that if if you don't do this, you are infringing on my freedom of speech.

There's just one problem with this idea: it's completely and hilariously bonkers and it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. You see, your freedoms and rights end the instant they come in contact with my freedom and rights (and vice versa). This means that I am free not to repeat your ravings and your right to express them end with me. You do not have the right to force me to repeat them, and my not repeating them does not infringe your freedom to say it to begin with. CCP has the same right not to broadcast your rantings if they do not like them. Their decision not to do so does not infringe on your freedom to speech. You're still just as free to express yourself — you just can't force CCP to repeat what you say.

You do not have any freedom of speech on these boards, because that freedom ceases to exist the instant it touches CCP's medium of communication, and all you can hope for is that they, out of the kindness of their heart, decide to let your message pass.


I would suggest you reread the wiki and maybe take sometime to digest it and get a grasp for the bigger picture.

Let's live in your world where no one is allowed any medium for dissent and they are never heard. What a boring place to live. How many examples do you need of people how had to repeatedly say hey look at me I have a great idea but were passed over for years until someone took notice? Voices and ideas that offer a different outlook or change shouldn't be silenced ever. CCP has a duty to ensure that all voices are heard just like everyone else.

You know sometimes I think you are dead wrong (and it hurts my head to read it) but I still read what you say and consider it. How would you feel if no one listened? More so what if you weren't given a voice at all.


Hey Scoot. What information is CCP suppressing from you? I must have missed that part.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-04-24 06:25:46 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:


Hey Scoot. What information is CCP suppressing from you? I must have missed that part.


I think we got off track a while back. I forget now.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#72 - 2012-04-24 06:26:43 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:


Hey Scoot. What information is CCP suppressing from you? I must have missed that part.


I think we got off track a while back. I forget now.


Well then you aren't helping your argument very much, are you?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-04-24 06:31:08 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
scooter Kondur wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:


Hey Scoot. What information is CCP suppressing from you? I must have missed that part.


I think we got off track a while back. I forget now.


Well then you aren't helping your argument very much, are you?


All I know is I came looking to buy a nice PI toon and maybe fly logi and I ended up here.
Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#74 - 2012-04-24 06:38:53 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
Free Speech

It seems to me that as of late that there are a lot of whiners complaining about everything and anyone that doesn't fit the norm. Much more then usual.

Sorry to say guys it is the different people that make Eve special. If you want to continue to ruin your game keep it up. People are always complaining about how CCP caters to the carebears (or whatever group) and how the game is continuously being dumbed down. This, lets call it pussification, of the game needs to stop. The constant rule changing, rule bending and silencing of individuals to appease the vocal minority of whiners needs to stop. I really see this as becoming a serious issue because of the partnership between Sony and CCP for Dust. Is Sony going to further strongarm CCP into adopting their PR policies?

If you can't take a joke, a troll or off the cuff remark then you need to HTFU.

That being said I will viciously troll you if you spew *** hate or any hate in my local but I will defend your right to your own views as well.

P.S. I was mad, had a cookie and now I'm ok



Think it happen something like that, first, lets start making these points.

It seems to me that as of late that there are a lot of whiners complaining about everything and anyone that doesn't fit the norm. Much more then usual.

So now you instally become a whiner! Oh my god, it follows something like this, as soon as you tell someone you hate drama, you start it.

next point.

Sorry to say guys it is the different people that make Eve special. If you want to continue to ruin your game keep it up.

Yelp, now not only did you not just counter your first point, the drama from your very first statement is now enraged by this. You've just become the very you said you would not.

People are always complaining about how CCP caters to the carebears (or whatever group) and how the game is continuously being dumbed down.

Saying that is like saying people always complain about people in high sec baiting newbies or unknowning prey into can flipping. You've just now created a endless cycle of counter arguments.

This, lets call it pussification, of the game needs to stop. The constant rule changing, rule bending and silencing of individuals to appease the vocal minority of whiners needs to stop.


um do a little more research before claiming this, CCP doesn't just listen to a minority of 'whiners' they tend to listen to the entire player base, case after all every change they make tends to be costly, and yes, they take bold steps, the actually need to make sure EVERYONE okay with it, or they could lose to much player base.

Also the first part, more drama incentive.

I really see this as becoming a serious issue because of the partnership between Sony and CCP for Dust. Is Sony going to further strongarm CCP into adopting their PR policies?

Yet again, another topic brought up due to the lack of research on the business model, and more drama incentive.

If you can't take a joke, a troll or off the cuff remark then you need to HTFU.

That being said I will viciously troll you if you spew *** hate or any hate in my local but I will defend your right to your own views as well.


P.S. I was mad, had a cookie and now I'm ok


Is there anything that needs more said? Okay, first I will start with this, it not OK, it Okay. Second, this is one basic clue that that A, you were really bored at night and needed something to do, or B, you threw a hissy fit and so such little self control, that you couldn't stop your fingers from moving....


I think that is all the points that had to be made O_o
scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#75 - 2012-04-24 06:41:51 UTC
All that and you missed the point about Free Speech.
Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-04-24 06:43:33 UTC
Then you should of made that a little more clear on your very first post! :D
scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#77 - 2012-04-24 06:48:50 UTC
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Then you should of made that a little more clear on your very first post! :D


It was in CAPS how much clearer can you get?

*still haven't found PI toon*
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#78 - 2012-04-24 07:00:16 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Then you should of made that a little more clear on your very first post! :D


It was in CAPS how much clearer can you get?

*still haven't found PI toon*


Make one. It takes a month. You will spend more paying the transfer fees for a PI alt than the character would be worth.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#79 - 2012-04-24 07:01:10 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
scooter Kondur wrote:
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Then you should of made that a little more clear on your very first post! :D


It was in CAPS how much clearer can you get?

*still haven't found PI toon*


Make one. It takes a month. You will spend more paying the transfer fees for a PI alt than the character would be worth.


need logi pilot too for incursions
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#80 - 2012-04-24 07:06:17 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
scooter Kondur wrote:
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Then you should of made that a little more clear on your very first post! :D


It was in CAPS how much clearer can you get?

*still haven't found PI toon*


Make one. It takes a month. You will spend more paying the transfer fees for a PI alt than the character would be worth.


need logi pilot too for incursions


Well which one do you want? Logi or PI?

Edit: Power of Two, man. Use it.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]