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So did the suicide ganking insurance nerf actually do anything
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2012-04-23 16:43:13 UTC
evereplicant wrote:
Judging by the cheap high alpha T3 BC constant ganks, and the 5 thrashers can kill a hulk i am thinking not
CCP why do you keep doing this, remove something then add something that completely negates the nerf in the first place.

if you have 300mill in T3 BC loses, compared to a few billion ship kill, its really a no brainer..

couple of solutions
1) give freighters type ships more EHP and add slots for tank
2) remove cargo scanners - its a suicide gankers dream




Tier 3 BCs aren't actually all that cheap now, especially once you've put a rack of large guns on them.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#22 - 2012-04-23 16:44:23 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
Don't fear, miner-bear. CCP Devs are doing their best to protect miners from themselves.
Luckily, for us - they are incompetent.

That's a pretty hilarious way you put it :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-04-23 16:46:36 UTC
The easiest solution I can see is a new concord suspicious activity buff. If say eight or more people target a ship that is not in their corporation. Concord will come immediately to investigate. This would limit the involved parties able to suicide gank while allowing people to do it. It would also give a reasonable means to buff tank as needed and work around mechanics. The only down side is that suicide gankers might have to bring bigger more expensive ships to kill a freighter. So the risk goes up for the reward of maybe getting that bpo / plex / large quantity of items. In the long run it really turns suicide ganking into a skill rather than something to do when your bored and feel like griefing someone.

Something clever
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-04-23 17:04:21 UTC
easy to fix. if killed by concord no insurance pay out done dusted and suicide ganking will stop being as easy as it is to make a profit and only ships realy worth it will be killed.....
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-04-23 17:06:24 UTC
Lord LazyGhost wrote:
easy to fix. if killed by concord no insurance pay out done dusted and suicide ganking will stop being as easy as it is to make a profit and only ships realy worth it will be killed.....


Yeah, remove insurance for gankers! That will show them! Roll
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-04-23 17:10:21 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
Lord LazyGhost wrote:
easy to fix. if killed by concord no insurance pay out done dusted and suicide ganking will stop being as easy as it is to make a profit and only ships realy worth it will be killed.....


Yeah, remove insurance for gankers! That will show them! Roll


i never said it would stop them i said it would calm the efect of ganking. as less ships would be targeted as the risk vs reward or cost vs profit would be a lot more closly watched. only ships that are going to cover the cost of the fleet+ profit would be hit rather then somone ganking somone in said ship when there insurance covers all but say 10m of the cost. then they can go around ganking pritty much what they want as they only need to make say 50-100m to cover the cost of a small fleet as the insurance makes up the difference.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#27 - 2012-04-23 17:10:56 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
- Separate gate guns from Concord, triple or quadruple security hit when Concord has to put down their donuts to sort out unruly elements.
- Give sec. gain to low-sec a huge bump, remove it in null (no "law") and decimate it in high-sec.

There, sorted suicide ganking once and for all. Still perfectly viable but with risk and cost equal to the deed.



oh yeah, them gankers are all sorts of concerned about negative sec status.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-04-23 17:16:33 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
need to say: there is no problem to solve. Freighter pilot has number of options to defend himself.


Dont fly a freighter?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-04-23 17:17:09 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
- Separate gate guns from Concord, triple or quadruple security hit when Concord has to put down their donuts to sort out unruly elements.
- Give sec. gain to low-sec a huge bump, remove it in null (no "law") and decimate it in high-sec.

There, sorted suicide ganking once and for all. Still perfectly viable but with risk and cost equal to the deed.


Gate guns kill pods too

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#30 - 2012-04-23 17:18:08 UTC
Ganking has not been IMO been nerfed. Infact with the T3's and Destroyer buffs. Ganking has been buffed.

You can still fly up to the victim, kill him. The penalty for ganking has been increased, sure, But the actual mechanic of ganking has been made easier. Exploits have been removed. Not so much a nerf tho. More a decrease of victims per hour.

As I said, the actual mechanic of ganking has been made a lot easier. you just cannot do as often. and take more penalty from it



o7
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-04-23 17:19:03 UTC
Lord LazyGhost wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:
Lord LazyGhost wrote:
easy to fix. if killed by concord no insurance pay out done dusted and suicide ganking will stop being as easy as it is to make a profit and only ships realy worth it will be killed.....


Yeah, remove insurance for gankers! That will show them! Roll


i never said it would stop them i said it would calm the efect of ganking. as less ships would be targeted as the risk vs reward or cost vs profit would be a lot more closly watched. only ships that are going to cover the cost of the fleet+ profit would be hit rather then somone ganking somone in said ship when there insurance covers all but say 10m of the cost. then they can go around ganking pritty much what they want as they only need to make say 50-100m to cover the cost of a small fleet as the insurance makes up the difference.



Personally, I think that if you remove insurance from gankers, it will lead to an increase in suicide ganking.
Gankers will simply find ways to gank more cheaply and improve their tactics.
And then carebears will just find something new to whine about....like getting ganked in destroyers.

But thats just me. What do I know?
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-04-23 17:38:38 UTC
The problem isn't the suicide gankers.. it's the people being ganked that somehow feel they are entitled to more protection and to be babied.

I'm had 2 failed gankes on my when I was in a Badger/II .. How did I survive ? Simple.. I shield tanked it.. Just makes sense.. If your ship and it's contents are valuable, use some common sense.

Out mining ? Hey I hear there are lots of attacks on mining ships, maybe I should, Oh I don't know, TANK MY SHIP.. That way the lone Cata Won't take me down..

Gotta move something really expensive ? Orca Corp hold..
Gotta move a lot of something ? Freighter.. but add up the hold before I undock to make sure I'm not over 1-1.5 bil..

These are really simple things that imho should be common sense. Anyone getting poped for following it, sorry, I have no sympathy for.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#33 - 2012-04-23 17:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
Malcanis wrote:
Tier 3 BCs aren't actually all that cheap now, especially once you've put a rack of large guns on them.
Much cheaper than the fitted Tempest needed before, to alpha industrials tho. Quite a lot cheaper.

IMO they should improve the EHP of a tanked industrial so you need 2 ships with large guns to alpha it.

At least that way it's not every lonely bored guy trained with BC4 and meta large guns, who suicide ganks. Either a seperate account ( besides the "looter" ) would be needed, or a friend.

But yeah, not much change needed, if any at all.

Now if CCP does indeed introduce the tags you can turn in for sec status increase, then something probably needs to be done, since you're effectively allowing the ganker to buy back his sec with his profits.

So he doesn't even have to leave his gate, to get his sec up once in a while.
Ameron Phinard
#34 - 2012-04-23 18:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ameron Phinard
Sentinel Smith wrote:

Out mining ? Hey I hear there are lots of attacks on mining ships, maybe I should, Oh I don't know, TANK MY SHIP.. That way the lone Cata Won't take me down..


One Catalyst can take down a tanked Mackinaw. The problem with exhumers is that they only have the grid of a T1 frigate, making it very difficult to fit even a modest buffer tank without gimping them out of their role. A fully tanked Hulk is a worse miner and has less tank than a mining Rokh. The Rokh just requires more attention and eventual carpal tunnel surgery.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-04-23 18:21:38 UTC
make it so people with low sec statuses can't suicide gank, atm a -10 person can just use an orca to get into a ship warp to a belt and pop a hulk with little loss, sec status is hardly a deterrent for anything which is one of the bigger problems.

that and t2 ships so they can survive 1-2 catalyst suicide gank attempt and everything will be a it should
suicide ganking should be about finding the idiot with 30 plex in a freighter, or frigate... not padding killboard stats with typical miner fits.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#36 - 2012-04-23 18:27:11 UTC
evereplicant wrote:
Judging by the cheap high alpha T3 BC constant ganks, and the 5 thrashers can kill a hulk i am thinking not
What constant ganks? By the look of the gates around here, it rather seems like a case of constant whines than actual ganks. Is there any actual data to suggest that they're nearly as “constant” as people like to claim? Also, have you run the numbers on what a T3 gank will cost you…?

Oh, and for the record, the gankers said so quite clearly: the change wouldn't actually affect the amount of ganking.

Eternum Praetorian wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
need to say: there is no problem to solve. Freighter pilot has number of options to defend himself.
Nano's also had a counter... other nano's. Remember?
In other words, there was not a number of options to counter them, so that comparison falls flat on its face, and you know it.


Anyway, largely, the effect seems to have been that haulers have lulled themselves deeper still into a sense of false security, and keep coming back surprised that their complete lack of preventive measures are getting them killed… shocking! Roll
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#37 - 2012-04-23 18:29:08 UTC
evereplicant wrote:
Judging by the cheap high alpha T3 BC constant ganks, and the 5 thrashers can kill a hulk i am thinking not
CCP why do you keep doing this, remove something then add something that completely negates the nerf in the first place.

if you have 300mill in T3 BC loses, compared to a few billion ship kill, its really a no brainer..

couple of solutions
1) give freighters type ships more EHP and add slots for tank
2) remove cargo scanners - its a suicide gankers dream



Lol. My ship can be alpha'd, plz nerf my advasaries. thank you.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2012-04-23 18:30:39 UTC
herp de derp let me just pilot 1b worth of goods in the wrong ship and lo and behold watch someone kill me how did this happen
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2012-04-23 18:32:23 UTC
ccp please buff shuttles it seems i get reliably ganked when i afk in them with plex in the cargohold
Revii Lagoon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-04-23 19:36:30 UTC
How do you counter suicide gankers? You don't, they learn to adapt, unlike all the high sec pubbies who refuse to learn from their mistakes.
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