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Defender Missiles
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#21 - 2012-04-23 14:09:28 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Depending on the changes this would mean the death of drake fleets in PvP. hurricane has 2 spare utility slots for neuts, either both or one being defenders, drake has a spare highslot that usually fits a small neut.

Then for PvE, especially in guristas space, or against guristas ships means an instant tank buff for any ship that can carry a spare launcher. Drakes, tengus, etc. I can just imagine the horror of a botted tengu with a spare high slot fitting defenders and FOF missiles, high ECCM and safe spots.


You are completely right, it would be pretty unbalanced and a huge nerf to most of the caldari ships, and I am not advocating those changes either.
I just wanted to bust the myth that defender missiles are technically impossible to implement for ccp. It could be done, and the coding would be rather easy- but it would require some large-scale rebalancing of all missile ships, and this is probably the reason why ccp has chosen to neglect defender missiles.

To do it would require an entirely NEW point defense system and weaponry period. Along the lines of defender missiles but Id trash those and start from scratch. Ironically the introduction of a new ship within a few different classes wouldnt be so bad as another addition to it. But itd take MAJOR rebalancing. Other than that defenders will remain useless and should imo.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Iceman10117
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#22 - 2012-04-23 18:40:18 UTC
First of all: I'm happy to see this got into a serious discussion.

I for myself think all missiles should get a buff, and that would include defender missiles. They would get useful and missiles would get useful too, since the only missile ship I can think is being used now is Drakes. And they are useless too Lol
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#23 - 2012-04-23 19:54:57 UTC
Iceman10117 wrote:
First of all: I'm happy to see this got into a serious discussion.

I for myself think all missiles should get a buff, and that would include defender missiles. They would get useful and missiles would get useful too, since the only missile ship I can think is being used now is Drakes. And they are useless too Lol

Well no tengus are starting to get used a TON in fleet fights as well as drakes. Tengus and drakes are still some of the prime PvE choices for missile chuckers and now with the latest dev blog video info will get a HUGE aesthetic boost as well. They were nerfed many patches ago to make them more in line with turrets in terms of classes and dmg profiles towards dif class ships. So except a point defense system I truly cant say missiles need a buff in any other way.

I liked the proposal to unchain drakes and possibly tengus from only having to use scourge as top dps so as to not shoehorn dmg profiles in to tank. But Im not sure if a straight ROF is the way to go, Id honestly prefer a new missile flavor in terms of dps mixing like the turret ammos with some increased bonuses or dmg much like the difference between the precision and fury flavors. Itd add another avenue for inventors if its t2, or if its a varient of a faction ammo itd add another LP reward, possibly a new FW reward for caldari militia? or perhaps a dif flavor for each faction though gallente doesnt have a dedicated missile chucker but both amarr and minmatar have at least some missile boats. But thered be a lot to work with there imo.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
#24 - 2012-04-23 20:09:00 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Baljos Arnjak wrote:
Mark Androcius wrote:
Well a purpose fit ship, with only 1 task ( to shoot as many missiles out of the sky ) is not such a bad idea.
Coding for it is not that hard either, the server is constantly aware what is out there, where it is going and who it came from.

I said some nerdy stuff..

Well, EVE is a game, not a NASA-simulation. You could make the whole process much easier on the CPU by sacrificing a little realism in favour of performance:
1. Activating the Defender launcher gives a (hidden) buff to all friendly ships in Defender range (one buff per launcher)
2. Does a buffed ship receive missile damage? If yes, remove one stack of the defender buff (will be up again with the next cycle of your defender launchers) and reduce total missile damage by about 15%.
3. if 2. is triggered, let the local clients play a beautiful mini- animation of a destroyed missile.


True, it depends on how exactly you want defenders to work. I was just trying to illustrate what it would be like if we kept it similar to how it works now. Big smile Still, the option to protect fleet members mucks things up performance wise, no matter what method you go with.

Even in your example, you'd have a lot of calculations going on that would lead to increased CPU load and more data passing between clients and more lag/TiDi. I don't mean to nitpick, but I do this kind of stuff IRL and can't help it lol.

Personally, I'd rather go with a flak barrier like in BSG and add in a ship that supports that weapon system. It could potentially be easy(er) on the system and look cool.
xh'neivers
House of Carrikk
#25 - 2012-04-24 11:16:53 UTC
Regarding defender missiles, I remember when I started playing I was really surprised that they didn't work against drones. Perhaps making them work like fof missiles that only target drones, and maybe scaling the missiles or launchers to be able to take on light, med, heavy, fighters and fighter bombers. That could allow for specialist fleet defense boats in sub cap fleets taking on carriers and super caps.

This would also give people a way of better killing drones other than smart bombs...

Oh, and this idea would take away defenders ability to take on missiles. Some sort of phalanx system scaled by meta, missile meta, skills etc would be a better solution - this coming from someone with max missile skills.
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