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Why does everyone hate the Drake?
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AstarothPrime
Pecunia Infinita
#21 - 2012-04-20 07:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: AstarothPrime
Death Toll007 wrote:
PVP Drake will rock even more!!!

Based on the latest proposed changes for the drake people will hate it even more.
What I have read:
1. Reduced Sig Radius (unsure of the details)
2. Increased base speed (unsure of the details)
3. Reduced resists (no more +5% per level losing 20k EHP)
4. Higher DPS (Increased rate of fire means more DPS)

...

PvE downside: No more uber tank :(

-DT



TBH i think drake ruins much fun in this game as it is now. The possibility to outfit 3x LSE, 3x Invul, 3x purger, 4x shield power relay brick drake and fly it anywhere without issues due to 1000 DPS+ passive tank is just idiotic IMO... you try everything there is in this game that way and have nothing to look forward in future skilling.

Removing that tank and helping gank a little will mean that you actually have ship AFTER drake to hop into...

I.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#22 - 2012-04-20 07:54:45 UTC
People used to hate the Drake because back in 2007 it was generally thought that it was a PVE-only carebearmobile that could do nothing in PVP but die slowly. Later, when they discovered that it was a very good solo/small-gang BC, they got even angrier. When the 100-man Drake blobs started appearing, they were seething. P

Anyway, if the Drake is overpowered then so is the Hurricane. Nerf all t2 BCs.
jagholas kiri
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-20 07:55:47 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is:

"If it works, it's overpowered."


Yeah, that's the reason why they buff Drake and they should nerf Winmatar.


Gallente are OP now...

Not winmatar.
Kale Eledar
Venerated Industries
#24 - 2012-04-20 15:22:21 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Drake is pimp. I like it. Then again, I like most everything these days.

-Liang


Motion for a "Liang Inspected and Approved" label on ships for all the newbs to learn to violence in

ED: Not that experimentation shouldn't be encouraged
Pirate

First come smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-04-20 17:11:23 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is:

"If it works, it's overpowered."


Yeah, that's the reason why they buff Drake and they should nerf Winmatar.



My Cane's Republic Fleet Phased Plasma would like to have a word with you Lol

Actually if changes are those mentioned I'll fly it even more than now, the +rof and missile speed will make Heavy Assault Missiles very effective but seems missiles are getting some attention for escalation so I'm inclined to think nex drake version will be an excellent gank machine (700dps shouldn't be difficult to fit) with still huge tank (can easily keep 70k EHP)
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-04-20 17:22:16 UTC
jagholas kiri wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is:

"If it works, it's overpowered."


Yeah, that's the reason why they buff Drake and they should nerf Winmatar.


Gallente are OP now...

Not winmatar.



You should stop playing with your society of alts at gates and join some good gangs to figure out it's not even close to be OP for everything else than Gate and station camps, the hybrids rebalance IS a FAKE.

Should Gallente Navy install hundreds more gates and stay at station undocks in each system to at least try to keep their frontiers. It's a very poor game play style in a game where with 3 buttons you can do everything, hell you have to openn windows for nothing just to have the feeling you're using skills Lol

Gallente were good at ganking on belts, gate camps and station undcks, they got a huge dps/range buff so they can be even better at gank gate and station camping because they're horrible at everything else, just like before the supposed rebalance.
If you play everything else than solo and (very) small gang and away from high sec and low sec station undocks/gates you have no interest on flying those.

Indeed Gallente are really op ...
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-04-20 17:58:07 UTC
- cost effective
- low SP
- easy to fly
- easy to tank
- can solo lvl4s and C3 anoms (!!!)
- looks fuckin' badass

how can you not hate that?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-04-20 18:30:46 UTC
one reason is because it's so popular. everywhere you go, you see them being flown. that's why I don't want to fly it or the hurricane. sheep followers
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#29 - 2012-04-20 20:02:43 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
one reason is because it's so popular. everywhere you go, you see them being flown. that's why I don't want to fly it or the hurricane. sheep followers


Be a rebel. Fly the Bellicose.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-04-20 20:07:08 UTC
Easy, it's because Drakes aren't blimps, and blimps are pretty pimp.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2012-04-20 20:33:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
one reason is because it's so popular. everywhere you go, you see them being flown. that's why I don't want to fly it or the hurricane. sheep followers

drakefleet, welpfleet, instacanes

such a lot of fun from just two battlecruiser hulls, and then there's the Tornado ~
Gypsio III wrote:
When the 100-man Drake blobs started appearing, they were seething. P

Sounds amazing, did it have to do with ~ blobbing ~ by any chance?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#32 - 2012-04-20 20:44:13 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Gypsio III wrote:
When the 100-man Drake blobs started appearing, they were seething. P

Sounds amazing, did it have to do with ~ blobbing ~ by any chance?


Not really - there was lots of rage over carebearmobiles being worthwhile in PVP. It was kinda funny really.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#33 - 2012-04-20 21:09:33 UTC
Wait, "hate" as in people thinking it's too good, or people thinking it's not good enough? Because I've heard both about more than half of the ships in the game.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#34 - 2012-04-20 21:36:09 UTC
AstarothPrime wrote:
Death Toll007 wrote:
PVP Drake will rock even more!!!

Based on the latest proposed changes for the drake people will hate it even more.
What I have read:
1. Reduced Sig Radius (unsure of the details)
2. Increased base speed (unsure of the details)
3. Reduced resists (no more +5% per level losing 20k EHP)
4. Higher DPS (Increased rate of fire means more DPS)

...

PvE downside: No more uber tank :(

-DT



TBH i think drake ruins much fun in this game as it is now. The possibility to outfit 3x LSE, 3x Invul, 3x purger, 4x shield power relay brick drake and fly it anywhere without issues due to 1000 DPS+ passive tank is just idiotic IMO... you try everything there is in this game that way and have nothing to look forward in future skilling.

Removing that tank and helping gank a little will mean that you actually have ship AFTER drake to hop into...

I.


Fly it anywhere without issues... right up until you meet a hostile with a friend, then you're a slow, dead turtle.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#35 - 2012-04-20 21:37:10 UTC
Lost Greybeard wrote:
Wait, "hate" as in people thinking it's too good, or people thinking it's not good enough? Because I've heard both about more than half of the ships in the game.



It's just stupid snobbery. If the ship is a good tool for what you need to do, then use it. Who cares if it's also good for noobs doing level 3s?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-04-20 22:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Drew Solaert
Let me tell you a story.

Once apon a time there was a Gallente pilot who loved rails. Lets call him ummm "Werd" Werd was your standard Gallente gunboat loving stud, cutting his teeth on the Thorax and then the Brutix he learnt all kinds of neat skills to get the most out of his ships and weapons, worrying about transversal, ranges trying to balance the incoming damage by careful selecting of targets and actively managing his tank. Soon he was shooting down crusiers at 4km in his 425mm Megathron with no tracking mods, thanks to his piloting knowledge.

But one day something bad happened. Werd met a shifty Caldari who told him all about this ship called the Drake. Werd knew he shouldn't, he had been taught the dangers of Drake use but he did it anyway.

A week later he was found, drooling, orbiting a cargo can barely able to speak just mashing the big shiny red button that fired the missiles at whatever the hell it was he had managed to target.

People now stop and stare at Werd but he doesn't notice he just licks the stations windows.

I lied :o
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#37 - 2012-04-20 22:43:55 UTC
Drew Solaert wrote:
Let me tell you a story.

Once apon a time there was a Gallente pilot who loved rails. Lets call him ummm "Werd" Werd was your standard Gallente gunboat loving stud, cutting his teeth on the Thorax and then the Brutix he learnt all kinds of neat skills to get the most out of his ships and weapons, worrying about transversal, ranges trying to balance the incoming damage by careful selecting of targets and actively managing his tank. Soon he was shooting down crusiers at 4km in his 425mm Megathron with no tracking mods, thanks to his piloting knowledge.

But one day something bad happened. Werd met a shifty Caldari who told him all about this ship called the Drake. Werd knew he shouldn't, he had been taught the dangers of Drake use but he did it anyway.

A week later he was found, drooling, orbiting a cargo can barely able to speak just mashing the big shiny red button that fired the missiles at whatever the hell it was he had managed to target. People stop and stare but Werd doesn't notice he just licks the windows inside stations.


The Drake is my go-to ship when I'm window licking drunk. There is a good reason for this.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-04-20 22:45:54 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I love the Drake. You have to realize that people in this game go by a very specific code of unwritten laws. One of them is:

"If it works, it's overpowered."


Yeah, that's the reason why they buff Drake and they should nerf Winmatar.


The reason why the Drake is getting buffed is because people want to see just how great the ship can get before becoming borderline overpowered. That's how ship balance should work anyway. Balance will be achieved when every ship is as best as it could possibly be and a buff of any kind would make it overpowered.

Minmatar is getting nerfed a bit because even up to this point, they are still MUCH more effective at PVP than any other faction.

Caldari- Only a handful of good PVP ships. However this is made up for by the fact they are some of the best ships in the game.
Gallente- Plenty of viable PVP options, they are at the perfect level.
Amarr- Lots of PVP ships though a good chunk of them are sub-par compared to similar ships of other races.
Minmatar- Lots of PVP ships, all of them are good.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Lili Lu
#39 - 2012-04-20 22:48:23 UTC
I'm going to break up this thread of "what's the problem dude?"Lol Speaking as a vocal drake hater Evil (and user but not on this character Straight) it is because it is out of balance with other ships in it's class and a class above it.

Evidence: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 Look at the ships used on kills. Drake 273k, next ship Maelstrom 92k. That is a 3 to 1 ratio between the top ship and the 2nd most used ship. This ridiculous ratio has been there about every month for the last 2 or 3 years.

Why not field a full fleet of 40-50mil (or whatever the mineral inflated ship and mod price is these days) 2LSE buffer Drakes with a BS sized tank that can still dish about 350 or so dps at 70km and stand a decent chance to kill a similar sized AHAC or Geddon or whatever other BS fleet the opposing fleet has while they are committing well over 100mil per ship. You can't do this with a fleet of Harbingers, Myrms, or Canes. They do not have a BS sized buffer or in the case of the Myrm that does the dps is even less stellar and is destructible or locks you in one place (sentries).

Combine the BS sized shield buffer and the fact that shield transfer is instantaneous and you get another advantage over plated BSs. Then also try some other variants like perma-MWD Drakes and bombers have trouble hitting them. Also, megapulse geddons or 800mm AC fit ships will struggle a lot to apply damage at 70km. So those ships get kited.

Basically the problem with the Drake in pvp is that it is punching above it's weight. No other race of ships has such a BC. Sure there are cane fleets but they lack the tank and rely on a numbers advantage to get in close and apply neuts to big targets. Or they are used in small gang engagements again for their high but short range ac dps and neuting or longer range but much less dps arty alpha.

In pve, which has been the longer recognized problem the tank and damage projection again outclass other BCs. Add to it the ability to passive or fully passive shield tank (or mixed passive buffer shield transfer) the Drake and still do just enough dps to get the job done and sleeper neuts become less of an issue. Again no other racial BC can do this, Myrm can sport the tank but sleepers kill drones. Drake tanks in general can be configured to outlast and outshine any BS tank except for a Rattler (but of course that is passive shield as well) or a Hyperion for the few minutes that cap charges last.

This is why the Drake gets hate from players like myself that don't want Drake/Tengu Online to continue and why it will get an adjustment. CCP finally after the evidence has been there for a very long time conceded that the ship is out of balance. Don't worry though only non-Caldari ships get nerfed into the stone age. It took no time at all for the Myrm to get dropped from 125 bandwidth to 75. Damps and damp ships were nerfed into the stone age after one alliance tournament of heavy damp use. Meanwhile we've had multiple years of heavy ecm boat and drake use in alliance tournaments with not reaction so far. ECM got nerfed but the specialized boats got an immediate rebuff (30% per level bonuses Ugh). So of course ecm boats still are go to in alliance tournaments and small gang pvp.

So anyway don't fret it if you love your cake and eat it too easy mode Drake. You won't get nerfed into futility. It will probably be a good ship still. This appears to be the result of many years of Caldari dominanace in character population and ship use. CCP won't give you the same treatment it has given at times to other races and ship types.Roll
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-04-20 22:58:49 UTC
People hate the Drake because it gets engaged, receives a bunch of gifts, then breaks up and donates the gifts to charity. The Drake is a selfish bastard.