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[Proposal] Anti-Blob

Author
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-04-19 21:46:21 UTC
No, just no.

Any anti-blob mechanics should not be forced upon the players. It should be some sort of weapon that enemy blob fleets are worried the other guy is carrying. EvE is famous for having thousands upon thousands of people involved in large fleet fights. If this horrible idea was ever implemented, it would kill one of the main attractions EvE has.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-04-19 22:32:15 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
No, just no.

Any anti-blob mechanics should not be forced upon the players. It should be some sort of weapon that enemy blob fleets are worried the other guy is carrying. EvE is famous for having thousands upon thousands of people involved in large fleet fights. If this horrible idea was ever implemented, it would kill one of the main attractions EvE has.

Agreed, that's why I proposed a new ship role and new modules for active defense (logistics are not active defense, rep is reactive) in the Aegis destroyer thread. More useful for prevention of alpha, but could potentially blunt the blob.

Tactical destroyers... I'll take a dozen Gallente, please.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#23 - 2012-04-19 22:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Danika Princip wrote:
Shoot everything on the field at random and you won't be able to apply enough DPS to break logistics reps though...

Hey, I never said it was perfect. I'm just trying to offer up a more sensible idea that would have the desired effect.

I really think fleet diversity is a bigger issue in today's fleet fights. swarms of identical ships should have more vulnerabilities than a properly-built mixed fleet. There's a reason every good navy in the world today uses large task forces that use combined arms. I'd rather see CCP focus more on encouraging fleets that make use of more types of ships, as I believe that would encourage more tactical thinking and more frenetic fights.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2012-04-19 23:04:22 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Shoot everything on the field at random and you won't be able to apply enough DPS to break logistics reps though...

Hey, I never said it was perfect. I'm just trying to offer up a more sensible idea that would have the desired effect.

I really think fleet diversity is a bigger issue in today's fleet fights. swarms of identical ships should have more vulnerabilities than a properly-built mixed fleet. There's a reason every good navy in the world today uses large task forces that use combined arms. I'd rather see CCP focus more on encouraging fleets that make use of more types of ships, as I believe that would encourage more tactical thinking and more frenetic fights.


Nobody uses 100% homogeneous fleets though. The average alphafleet containes BS, logis, fast tackle, webs, ECM, dictors, hictors, recons, BCs, command ships and maybe others. Anyone using purely one type of ship is going to lose pretty quickly.
Katalci
Kismesis
#25 - 2012-04-20 00:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Katalci
Scrap the dumbassed lockbreaker module, then burn this thread and gas the OP.

Anti-blob weapons already exist. Bombs, titans, good logis, ewar, sniping/nanofagging, etc.
wjonlemon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-04-20 10:10:00 UTC
Well its nice to know at least someone has had the same vision as me with chaotic fleet fights, but this seems to be trending to a resounding slap in the face no to the idea. P
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#27 - 2012-04-20 13:51:16 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Nobody uses 100% homogeneous fleets though. The average alphafleet containes BS, logis, fast tackle, webs, ECM, dictors, hictors, recons, BCs, command ships and maybe others. Anyone using purely one type of ship is going to lose pretty quickly.


Command ships? People still use those when they can give better bonuses and stronger tanks with T3s?

The biggest fleet fight I've ever seen (I've watched quite a few, but never engaged in any) consisted of a big blob of drakes versus a big blob of maelstroms. It was early on in my first ventures into low/null and I couldn't even tell you who the involved parties were; I was utterly ignorant of space politics at the time.

These blobs made up probably 90% of their respective fleets. That's close enough to homogeneous for me to see it as a problem.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-04-20 14:10:22 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Nobody uses 100% homogeneous fleets though. The average alphafleet containes BS, logis, fast tackle, webs, ECM, dictors, hictors, recons, BCs, command ships and maybe others. Anyone using purely one type of ship is going to lose pretty quickly.


Command ships? People still use those when they can give better bonuses and stronger tanks with T3s?

The biggest fleet fight I've ever seen (I've watched quite a few, but never engaged in any) consisted of a big blob of drakes versus a big blob of maelstroms. It was early on in my first ventures into low/null and I couldn't even tell you who the involved parties were; I was utterly ignorant of space politics at the time.

These blobs made up probably 90% of their respective fleets. That's close enough to homogeneous for me to see it as a problem.


Oh hell yes.

There is always a costant demand for them (Command Ships) in the "CFC"

FYI: They are still cheaper than T3's floppie. *but you knew that...just being a smartass (ribs)*LolLol

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#29 - 2012-04-20 15:36:46 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Oh hell yes.

There is always a costant demand for them (Command Ships) in the "CFC"

FYI: They are still cheaper than T3's floppie. *but you knew that...just being a smartass (ribs)*LolLol

Yeah, my Abso was about half the price of any of my Legions. it also doesn't do any of the jobs as well. It's a lot of fun to fly, but command ships DEFINITELY need some buffs to make them do what they should be doing.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-04-20 15:57:53 UTC
wjonlemon wrote:
Well its nice to know at least someone has had the same vision as me with chaotic fleet fights, but this seems to be trending to a resounding slap in the face no to the idea. P

We definitely want more variety in fleet fights, just not through nerfing existing functionality. A more natural way to achieve this would be to model a military's natural response to the problem: change the capabilities of the fleet. If the real problem with blobs is focused fire, find a way to handle focused fire. You must assume that you cannot directly alter your enemy (except, perhaps through infiltration and sabotage). Therefore, reduce the incoming damage with active defense as opposed to reactive repair. Developing technology that would interfere or intercept incoming fire (like an Aegis destroyer), or that could temporarily soak up some of the damage (Remote Shield Extender modules with a cool-down, Remote Resistance Amplifier modules with a cool down) could achieve this.

The enemy's response would end up having to be taking the defense apart in detail to increase the effectiveness of their offense. Mixed ewar and tackle packages become important (depending on how the active defense roles are implemented).

I'm not saying that the fleet with the most ships won't still win. If both sides bring a balanced fleet, all else being equal the one with the numbers should win. That doesn't need fixing. But there should be more room for tactics to make a difference than there is today.

As mentioned, I've created a thread in this forum for those interested in the notion of Aegis destroyer, though perhaps it should be modified to "active defense".

Tactical destroyers... I'll take a dozen Gallente, please.

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-04-20 16:53:59 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Oh hell yes.

There is always a costant demand for them (Command Ships) in the "CFC"

FYI: They are still cheaper than T3's floppie. *but you knew that...just being a smartass (ribs)*LolLol

Yeah, my Abso was about half the price of any of my Legions. it also doesn't do any of the jobs as well. It's a lot of fun to fly, but command ships DEFINITELY need some buffs to make them do what they should be doing.


Amen to that..but isn't an Damnation more fun in fleets?

Course an Abso is kinda fun for small time fleets.

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Hoogalish
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-04-20 17:25:09 UTC
what if a new mod like a damage control that prevents structure damage for 5 seconds after armor is depleted and the mod breaks? Doesn't make you invincible but gives logistics a change to get on you.


me personaly i hate changing things when we can just add more to the game.
Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-04-20 19:08:19 UTC
This idea is ******* ridiculous.

There is a time and place for large scale warfare, and creating mechanics that completely trump the ability to do so would destroy the game.

Also, if I had to take out a d*ckstar with 40 drakes I'd f*cking hang myself.
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-04-21 00:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: betoli
Why the **** can't people read what was written? The OP didn't propose that blobs shouldn't be allowed, he proposed that there should be a limit to the amount of primarying that is effective. That doesn't mean that no one dies because the 10 logis can tank the primary, it means the 10 logis have to worry about multiple primaries.

Jesus ******* Wept.

In a 'role playing sense' there is usually a limit on effectiveness of numerous aggressions - in the 2D warship style, eve is modelled on, it's called line of sight.
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