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Purgers vs Extenders
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Kamden Line
Sovereign Citizen and other Tax Evasion Schemes
#1 - 2011-09-29 03:47:20 UTC
So, can someone explain to me why Extenders> Purgers? I was playing with a Oynx hictor fit, and one of my corpmates told me that extenders increased boosting all around, whilst Purgers only increased recharge rate at peak recharge?

Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-09-29 04:10:42 UTC
Your shield and capacitor recharge in the same amount of time (barring recharge affecting mods) no matter how much extra you add to them. This coupled with their skewed recharge amounts (max recharge per second bein when they're between 25%~35% if memory serves) means that you get a 'two-fer' in that simply adding more shield (and/or capacitor) alone means you get (dur) more shield hp AND better recharge amount.

If you were to just increase shield/cap recharge rate, you only get improved rechargerate alone.

Google shield and/or capacitor or even eve universty's website to read much better/more technical explanations (or see below, chances are someone more eloquent than I will be along).

Both can be effective, though for purgers(recharge rate), it's generally more/most effective in pve alone, whereas extenders work well for both pve and pvp.
Gavin DeVries
JDI Industries
#3 - 2011-09-29 04:11:49 UTC
Short answer: For PVP you want buffer. Extenders give buffer, purgers don't.

Long answer: The shield recharge time of any ship works the exact same way; it takes X number of seconds to go from zero shield to max shield. This time doesn't change regardless of the hitpoints of the shield, so increasing your Shield Management skill or adding shield extenders or even implants that give more shield hp have the effect of increasing the regeneration rate as well. You take a ship with 10,000 hp and increase that to 27,000 hp and it'll still take the same amount of time to recharge.

Also, in PVP you're probably going to be subject to far more incoming damage than any regeneration can soak. So, in those circumstances, you just want to last as long as possible.

PVP is a question with no single right answer, but a lot of wrong ones.
Sassaniak
Deadspace Zombie Factory
#4 - 2011-09-29 04:16:35 UTC
Kamden Line wrote:
So, can someone explain to me why Extenders> Purgers? I was playing with a Oynx hictor fit, and one of my corpmates told me that extenders increased boosting all around, whilst Purgers only increased recharge rate at peak recharge?



i figure this is about pvp?

it is about the fast damage that you will recieve burns through your shield faster then it can recharge, so having more actual shield will let you live a bit longer then having a good theroetical recharge rate. which you may never get to see. as you have died too quickly. or you may see it recharge a little before it is wiped away by the second volley from your enemy.

someone will quickly correct me if i am wrong about this
Blank drake all skills 0.

shield recharge is based off a given time frame to recharge the shield from 0 - 100%
purgers decrease the time to get from 0-100 and extenders increase the amount of shield considered 100%

so your standard drake has 5469 shield and a recharge rate of 1400 seconds (peak 9.77 hp/s) ehp 7543 add three purger rigs and it changes to 5469 shield hp and a recharge rate of 716.8 (peak 19.07hp/s) ehp 7543

switch those to extenders, 8318 shield hp, recharger time of 1400s peak rate of 14.85 and ehp of 11473

at all skills V the numbers are more dramatic but remember also that it depends on the situation. an onyx can always expect heavy focus fire. at least for the first few seconds, then the target might switch when you havent died. or you may never get shot at all. because you are expected to have a heavy tank.

the best fitting should include recharge time reduction, and raw shield hp increase.

...............................................................................

Sometimes, you all make me very disappointed.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2011-09-29 05:53:51 UTC
Gah. Long post eaten and I'm not going to recreate it faithfully.

But I'll at least point this out: passive shield tanks only work at peak at one specific point on their total shield capacity. Go anywhere above or below that and recharge drops off (precipitously if you go low). Purgers act to increase recharge rate (by decreasing recharge time) but do nothing to extend that peak zone, while extenders actual expand it and make your tank (sometimes significantly) less susceptible to alpha strikes. This is especially true on smaller ships, which is why passive frigates are often better off with at least one extender.

For an Onyx that isn't really a huge issue, but it is worth considering in general. The standard fit would be to slap on extenders (and not really passive tank at all, just buffer tank and to hell with incidental recharge) and call it a day, but there are some valid purpose-built fits that have enough recharge to take gate guns while still having enough buffer to wait for logistics and/or wait until the target is down.

But yeah, extenders if you're at all unsure.
Tyrnaeg en Varche
#6 - 2011-09-29 07:15:47 UTC
More or less, buffer for PvP and recharge for PvE.

Recharging mods stack much better, though. For example each *additional* Shield Power Relay added gives increased tank. There is a balancing point however where adding one type (Purger/Extender) produces better results than the other type. You can experiemnt in EFT and see how it works - it depends on the ship, skills and current fitting.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-30 00:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
They are each for different tanking methods.
Extenders add HP to create a buffer.
Purgers are for increasing natural shield regeneration.

While true that increasing shield HP will increase regenerated HP/sec, a purger rig will give better recharge than an extender.
Additionally, while true that shield recharge does have a peak, increasing recharge increases the HP/sec over the entire curve of shield regen from what it would be at the same shield percentage. So for a given set amount of damage (that doesn't break your tank) your shield will stabilize at a higher percentage when regen rate is increased.

It is true that extenders are good for buffer and alpha, where purgers do not help at all.
Suddenly NinetyDrakes
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-10-01 00:53:26 UTC
In PVP people fit for EHP because a standard tank will realistically only tank one enemy DPS ship and is balanced so that one enemy DPS ship will slowly kill it. Start shooting with 2 similarly sized DPS boats and an active tank ship crumples. To even begin making active tank viable requires a massive investment in faction loot and an x-large shield booster (faction) or dual+ LAR (faction).

So PVPers normally fit buffer.