Science & Industry

Well ****, my well constructed reply just deletes itself.

Summary:
1) If you're going to separate the 'invention' from the 'production' then please don't waste your time arguing. You can have it, it's not even worth it. Just FYI though, there's no market for buying T2 BPCs (hence why you cant profit from just selling them), so you can't run a serious 'production' line without 'inventing' yourself, so why bother even separating?

2) The majority of T2 items, with the exception of those with incredibly low sales volume, are profitable. Please try not to make such far reaching statements without providing an example of an item, with a decent volume move, that's unprofitable.

If you're going to argue that it's not profitable because 'inventing' alone (ie without producing) isn't profitable please don't bother, I'm not going too.

I've never really looked into small volume items, I mainly just said that to make it harder to find unprofitable items =P. Job well done though, and cheers for the support.

Emphasis mine.

Also, a new player exploring -invention- as an avenue of revenue? The skills to manufacture the items are generally the same, with the exception of needing PE V..

And I appreciate that you're saying do the maths, however as I've been trying to say to you, almost every T2 item that moves in decent quantities is profitable. This includes your example of T2 cruiser hulls. If you're invention rate manages to stay around where it should do, you will always profit, and in fact having recently crunched the numbers on a few T2 cruisers, as long as you maintain approx. 15% success rate or higher (you should have around 29%), you will profit.

So finally, unless you're just outright lying to stop people getting into invention, please run the numbers before trying to say something isn't profitable.

I wouldn't be so quick to call people stupid when you yourself may not realize the irrelevant nature of your hypothetical invention spree.

Lets try the Hulk - we all agree that it's a reasonably high volume I hope.


At current Jita Prices


Invention per try:

8 Datacore Gallentean Starship Engineering @ 80,000 - cost: 640,000
8 Datacore Mechanical Engineering @ 250,000 - cost: 2,000,000

Cost per try - 2,640,000

With perfect skills - success chance 25.2%

Average cost per successful invention chance: 10,476,190


Production:

88 Construction Blocks @ 7,199 - cost: 633,512
1 Covetor @ 16,497,000
3500 Crystalline Carbonide Armor Plate @ 7,481 - cost: 26,183,500
53 Fusion Reactor Unit @ 28.680 - cost: 1,520,040
70 Ion Thruster @ 12,500 - cost: 875,000
263 Magnetometric Sensor Cluster @ 15,480 - cost: 4,071,240
126 Morphite @ 3,488 - cost: 439,488
700 Oscillator Capacitor Unit @ 41,984 - cost: 29,388,800
3500 Photon Microprocessors @ 31,579 - cost: 110,526,500
263 Pulse Shield Emitter @ 14,400 - cost: 3,787,200
10 R.A.M. Starship Tech @ 49,500 - cost: 495,000


Total Production Cost: 194,417,280


Grand Total: 204,884,470 ISK

Hulk Sell price: 194,482,000 ISK

Net loss - 10,402,470 ISK

And that is assuming the covetor BPC is free (which it isn't) and that you don't have any market taxes to pay (which you will).


I know that this can in some ways be mitigated by using decryptors but nevertheless it really is worth doing the math because often you come up with a loss.

Really sometimes i think some of you can't see past your spreadsheet, you do your numbers and thats it and you think you are right because it says so in black and white on your spreadsheet, well you are wrong

Is invention profitable , selling the invented bpcs i don't know i don't see the point of it

Invention and producing the t2 items yes it is if you look past youer spreadsheet yes
Stop looking at those numbers on your spreadsheet and try looking where you can cut costs

by example that hulk production cost posted here earlier

2 items i know for sure
RAM starship tech ... the bpo is actually cheaper than what you pay for your RAM
Construction blocks that number is less than a day sproduction from a average pi set up
and there are more on that example i could easily cut 20 mil from the production costs

With some time invested in setting up your t2 production you can make a good profit no matter what people say
Being in a good corp with people who you can trust and who can co operate will make this all so much easier

And for those who keep uying all the componnts and the datacore keep doing it you making us rich

Stuff is worth what you can sell it for. Not some arbitrary value you personally think it's worth.

The second.

I'll answer the OP using my own (different char)--fairly profitable, but somewhat limited in volume to-date--T2 invention/manufacturing experience:

1) Research, research, research. Then more research, and just before you invent and build, research again. My TI-84+ graphic calculator has proven itself as my bestie in this. No, I'm not going to tell you what or where, you can do this easily if you're not brain-dead.

2) In general, don't bother trying to sell T II BPCs for more "mainstream" ships/mods: The market is absolutely glutted with those ATM, and if you get consistent good results, then you can make more money building the stuff. Again, get out the calculator and scratchpad (Excel? Never heard of it)

3) To re-affirm/paraphrase what someone said above, location does matter. Scorch M and L lenses probably won't do too well in Hek, but I'd imagine they'd do much better in the Amarr/Penigram area, just as likewise Large Armour Repair Unit II's won't do as well in Ichoriya or Motsu as Large Shield Booster IIs and Invuln IIs.

Get used to staring at the "Market History" graph window, too.

At some point, you will want/need a small research/copying POS, as that is what will ensure you can keep a good turnover of input (BPs to be researched/copied/invented) to get any real volume of output, because the research and copy-slots--and to a small degree, invention slots, depending on where you are--are the bottleneck on your volume of output, otherwise, when you factor in the time it takes to build the stuff.

That's where I'm coming up to now, to "get serious:" IE, to POS or not to POS? And, once POS'ed up, do you need/want the veritable "army of alts?"

(In other words, how much of a "job" do you want your EVE to turn into? Because from what I've seen it's verrrrrrrrrry easy to fall a long, long way into the Abyss of "EVE as job" before you know it)

FYP.