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Nightmare, Incursions and Capacitor issues and solutions?
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Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#1 - 2012-04-19 00:31:24 UTC
So I am looking to convert my nightmare to an Incursion boat, and I have two questions;

-Firstly, what about cap? - I dont want to be "that guy" in the fleet where the logi always has to feed cap, unless this is expected of nightmare pilots?

(^ or is cap transfered between other battleships; below I have fitted a nightmare with two energy transfers; could this warrant me two energy transfers back my way?)




-Secondly, are there any adaptations you would make to this fit?
(It has 90k EHP, resistances are 74.8%, 70%, 72.8%, and 77.4% respectively

[Nightmare, Incursions]
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
Damage Control II

Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range
Pithum B-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-04-19 00:57:22 UTC
You could try fitting any cap stability mods on your ship.
churrros
afwewafe
#3 - 2012-04-19 01:23:42 UTC
just broadcast for cap.

its not like you need constant cap transfers anyway, you only need it for like 1 or 2 cycles.
Argaral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-04-19 01:28:55 UTC
mxzf wrote:
You could try fitting any cap stability mods on your ship.


You pair a nightmare with another battleship for cap transfers......
drdxie
#5 - 2012-04-19 02:29:41 UTC
I have a T2 CCC rig, fitted on mine which helps a lot. Other rigs are T2 thermal and T1 extender. It is not cap stable, obviously, but it allows me to get through sites without asking for cap. I also have cap implants in slot 6 and 8. I also only have 3 x faction heat sinks and a tracking enhancer, so I think that 4 heat sink will make it even tougher. It does help to switch of hardeners while warping, just remember to put them back on. I do get ragged on for my cap rig.. but hey, I don't bug the logi and can fire continuously. I guess this will change as blitzing will no longer possible.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#6 - 2012-04-19 02:41:48 UTC
drdxie wrote:
I have a T2 CCC rig, fitted on mine which helps a lot. Other rigs are T2 thermal and T1 extender. It is not cap stable, obviously, but it allows me to get through sites without asking for cap. I also have cap implants in slot 6 and 8. I also only have 3 x faction heat sinks and a tracking enhancer, so I think that 4 heat sink will make it even tougher. It does help to switch of hardeners while warping, just remember to put them back on. I do get ragged on for my cap rig.. but hey, I don't bug the logi and can fire continuously. I guess this will change as blitzing will no longer possible.




Thanks, you answered my questions nicely...

How long does your cap last for if you ran everything?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-04-19 16:50:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
drdxie wrote:
I have a T2 CCC rig, fitted on mine which helps a lot. Other rigs are T2 thermal and T1 extender. It is not cap stable, obviously, but it allows me to get through sites without asking for cap. I also have cap implants in slot 6 and 8. I also only have 3 x faction heat sinks and a tracking enhancer, so I think that 4 heat sink will make it even tougher. It does help to switch of hardeners while warping, just remember to put them back on. I do get ragged on for my cap rig.. but hey, I don't bug the logi and can fire continuously. I guess this will change as blitzing will no longer possible.


Just out of curiosity, why the CCC over an EDE II? If the point is to keep the guns going, the latter seems to do the trick better.

Edit: plus, the cost difference....
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-04-19 16:56:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Arazel Chainfire
To be honest, I ran with this fit, and always found a cap buddy. Never ran out of cap, even when being neuted.

[Nightmare, Incursion Closerange]
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II

Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
[empty rig slot]

Hammerhead II x5

I also always had a maxed skilled tengu offgrid booster, which is why I could get away with that low of a tank. Of course... new logi's always complained about how squishy I was... but I never lost a ship. And I generally ran with 2 logi fleets.

-Arazel
Daphny Naarma
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-04-19 18:21:26 UTC
drdxie wrote:
... It does help to switch of hardeners while warping, just remember to put them back on. ...


I wont argue it doesn't help, but realize that ONE hardener cycle costs in the cap range of firing ONE laser. ONE time. The cap cost of herdeners are often hugely overestimated. Just saying. If you want to min/max then ofc it costs less cap to have them off while not using them, but in reality, the difference is really tiny.
Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-04-19 18:48:32 UTC
fly a mach
drdxie
#11 - 2012-04-19 20:29:38 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
drdxie wrote:
I have a T2 CCC rig, fitted on mine which helps a lot. Other rigs are T2 thermal and T1 extender. It is not cap stable, obviously, but it allows me to get through sites without asking for cap. I also have cap implants in slot 6 and 8. I also only have 3 x faction heat sinks and a tracking enhancer, so I think that 4 heat sink will make it even tougher. It does help to switch of hardeners while warping, just remember to put them back on. I do get ragged on for my cap rig.. but hey, I don't bug the logi and can fire continuously. I guess this will change as blitzing will no longer possible.


Just out of curiosity, why the CCC over an EDE II? If the point is to keep the guns going, the latter seems to do the trick better.

Edit: plus, the cost difference....


The T2 CCC rig was already fit, I used it for missioning and changing to the T2 EDE only gives another minute or 2, so never bothered. I get 15 min cap with T2 Mega pulse and 6m if I use T2 tachyon's. NO HQ on work PC, but if I remember I will post the fit when I get home.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#12 - 2012-04-19 22:11:57 UTC
Ok as one of the elite incursion runners that does have cap issues you DO NOT ADD CCC rigs to compensate for the issue. That takes way too much away from your Energy and Shield Rigs.

1) Get a cap transfer buddy...Ok solution but requires a buddy which is not optimal and always gives you a bit of a sweat hoping that no one griefs you.

2) Get Faction NOs for the two remaining hi slots

3) what i do. I have two nos's when needed, and also run just one hardener until i start getting aggro, then i switch the hardeners that were off, to on.

4) use mega pulse...please for the love of god use mega pulse unless you are fit to snipe for assaults. Then you defintiely will need a cap buddy.
drdxie
#13 - 2012-04-20 00:48:30 UTC
BearJews wrote:
Ok as one of the elite incursion runners ..... y.


so your FC decide you're elite then.. In that case.. tell how my fit can be change to add any value.. also note, I don't have to worry about shooting my cap buddy and getting concorded.. fit below..

4x mega pulse
s95 shield rr
regard power

2 x CN Invuln
sensor boost
dread EM ward
2 x fed navy web
tracking comp


3 x navy heat sink
2 x TE

T2 Thermal rig
T2 CCC
T1 extender

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-04-20 11:17:43 UTC
drdxie wrote:
I have a T2 CCC rig, fitted on mine which helps a lot. Other rigs are T2 thermal and T1 extender. It is not cap stable, obviously, but it allows me to get through sites without asking for cap. I also have cap implants in slot 6 and 8. I also only have 3 x faction heat sinks and a tracking enhancer, so I think that 4 heat sink will make it even tougher. It does help to switch of hardeners while warping, just remember to put them back on. I do get ragged on for my cap rig.. but hey, I don't bug the logi and can fire continuously. I guess this will change as blitzing will no longer possible.





Why did you fit CCC Rig's On a Incursion Ship? Unless its for missions.

Regarding Cap Issues, You wont be running the 2x Cap Transfers for the full duration of the site, If you are having cap problems, Train you core skills, Another tip is, Turn off your Tank unless you are getting Hit in a Site.

Micro Managing Cap Ftw.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#15 - 2012-04-20 13:00:15 UTC
[Nightmare, Incursions]
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
Damage Control II

Pithum B-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier
Pithum B-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

I have adapted the fit slightly, this gives you 6-7 min of cap without the projectors running..
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-04-20 13:51:11 UTC
You can also use faction Tachyons, which will save you cap equivalent to fitting an EDE II rig at the cost of a very small amount of DPS

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-04-20 16:43:20 UTC
Ira Infernus wrote:
So I am looking to convert my nightmare to an Incursion boat, and I have two questions;

-Firstly, what about cap? - I dont want to be "that guy" in the fleet where the logi always has to feed cap, unless this is expected of nightmare pilots?

(^ or is cap transfered between other battleships; below I have fitted a nightmare with two energy transfers; could this warrant me two energy transfers back my way?)




-Secondly, are there any adaptations you would make to this fit?
(It has 90k EHP, resistances are 74.8%, 70%, 72.8%, and 77.4% respectively

[Nightmare, Incursions]
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
Damage Control II

Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range
Pithum B-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I


tl;dr vanguards: true sansha nos, assults/HQs: cap with another nightmare

In vanguards, if your not running pulse lasers i would suggest a true sansha nos, core skills are usually enough to keep pulses up but i don't know about tachs. turning off your tank when your not getting shot is viable but you better be paying attention.

NEVER EVER USE CAP RECHARGERS CAP POWER RELAYS OR CAP RIGS ~~ Most FCs will label you a ****** and you won't get invited as much or to good fleets.

On a side note, try upgrading to a T2 collision accelerator and dropping the metastasis adjuster, you will see a massive increase in DPS because of the way diminishing returns work~

♞
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#18 - 2012-04-20 17:39:28 UTC
drdxie wrote:
BearJews wrote:
Ok as one of the elite incursion runners ..... y.


so your FC decide you're elite then.. In that case.. tell how my fit can be change to add any value.. also note, I don't have to worry about shooting my cap buddy and getting concorded.. fit below..

4x mega pulse
s95 shield rr
regard power

2 x CN Invuln
sensor boost
dread EM ward
2 x fed navy web
tracking comp


3 x navy heat sink
2 x TE

T2 Thermal rig
T2 CCC
T1 extender

Get rid of the T2 CCC, get rid of the extender and change those out to Energy weapon rigs (i personally chose t2 optimal and t2 tracking rigs) and pulse your hardeners like i stated before if cap is an issue. Keep the EM hardener on at all times and only activate the 2 invuln when you get aggroed. Change your High's to both be Nos so you don't have to rely on a cap buddy (you can change that around if you do). I'd also get rid of the second web and put a tracking computer instead so you can pretty much 1 shot Niarjas and Tama's.
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#19 - 2012-04-20 17:45:50 UTC
and if you're still worried about your buffer tank, you can change out one TE to a damage control which will put all your resists to about 80% (my lowest with a good wing booster is 79% for thermal).

My fit:

2xheavy Sansha nos
4xmega Pulse II

mids:
pith x em ward
2xCaldari navy adap
2x faction tracking computer
1 faction web
1 faction sensor booster

Lows:
3xIN heatsink
1xTE tech II
Dmage control

Rigs:
Anti-thermal
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Energy Collision Accelerator II

Most people tell me it's over tanked, but i'm fine with it considering the cost. I also have +6% implants for tracking and damage/rof
Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#20 - 2012-04-20 20:44:33 UTC
BearJews wrote:
and if you're still worried about your buffer tank, you can change out one TE to a damage control which will put all your resists to about 80% (my lowest with a good wing booster is 79% for thermal).

My fit:

2xheavy Sansha nos
4xmega Pulse II

mids:
pith x em ward
2xCaldari navy adap
2x faction tracking computer
1 faction web
1 faction sensor booster

Lows:
3xIN heatsink
1xTE tech II
Dmage control

Rigs:
Anti-thermal
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Energy Collision Accelerator II

Most people tell me it's over tanked, but i'm fine with it considering the cost. I also have +6% implants for tracking and damage/rof




Do the NOS's really work? I thought that they didnt work too well on rats?