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What if we made a push to up another trade hub?

Author
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#21 - 2012-04-18 09:46:03 UTC
Liberty Eternal wrote:
You can have the bots. Just tell us where to send them.



//command prep_travel_mode
//command read_dest_from_thread

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OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#22 - 2012-04-18 16:26:12 UTC
Lauren Hellfury wrote:
Liberty Eternal wrote:
You can have the bots. Just tell us where to send them.



//command prep_travel_mode
//command read_dest_from_thread


I just woke up in Cat with an indy full of meta4 mods and a blinding headache. What happened?
Alain Kinsella
#23 - 2012-04-18 21:46:17 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
The hisec Amarr regions are Domain, Genesis, Kador, Tash-Murkon, and Khanid Kingdom (I'm sure I left something out).


Ammatar Mandate, aka Derelik.

Berta is the closest the region has to a hub, due to it being the HS gateway to Curse. Sendaya would be its Low counterpart (arguably). Most of the rest of the region struggles due to Rens being so close, and are primarily mission hubs anyway.

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).

Beliandra
Elgoi Developments Inc.
#24 - 2012-04-19 06:22:02 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
(and I'd love to see someone figure out total transaction volume / amounts per day - which would be far more accurate as a measure of what the top 10 trade hubs are)

Is it possible to obtain that info on a station-by-station or system-by-system basis?

Or would you have to go region-by-region and basically assume that e.g. Forge vs. Domain is roughly proportional to Jita vs. Amarr? Which is probably fair enough, Amarr seems to have more than 80% of the sell order value of the Domain region, and Jita more than 90% of The Forge.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#25 - 2012-04-19 13:24:16 UTC
Beliandra wrote:

Or would you have to go region-by-region and basically assume that e.g. Forge vs. Domain is roughly proportional to Jita vs. Amarr? Which is probably fair enough, Amarr seems to have more than 80% of the sell order value of the Domain region, and Jita more than 90% of The Forge.


The market history graph / data is only available on a regional basis.

It would provide a way to cross-check the "sell total" numbers. Is Jita really that big? Is Amarr really that small? Is there some other region which moves a lot of product ISK per day?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#26 - 2012-04-19 15:32:32 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Just picking between Oursulaert and Dodixie would help.
LOL, just picking ONE station in Oursulaert would help. Same with Stacmon, Villore, and every other Gallente regional hub.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#27 - 2012-04-19 17:48:43 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Amarr is looking to become a bigger trade Hub if Dr E's predictions of more & more peeps are moving into Amarr space because of crowding.


You didn't read the report properly. There are more people in Amarr space because there is more Amarr space.


Umm yes I did & its what I meant. Amarr proper (the system) would be the HUB best situated for all Amarr space
so far unless people start congealing around some other mission HUBs say closer to Ohide?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-04-20 18:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Trollin
Kalipoli wrote:
So why hasnt someone undertaken the the task of filling all items (or close to all items) at all stations everywhere.

It would be a serious undertaking but imagine how the game might change if everything you needed was in the system with you.

i dont think it would be for the better of eve but it sure would be a cool endeavor.



its mental because with max skills each character can manage only ~300 orders, it would take you literally dozens of accounts per station to handle the orders, and you would commit suicide after running just a few accounts as full time station traders especially in a theoretical/non-existant hub, that has very little volume.

basically it doesnt happen because its not a good idea under the current machanics, switch it to unlimited orders and let us write algo's to trade instead of manual management and it might happen, but thats ccp's ball not mine

We are our own worst enemy.

Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#29 - 2012-04-20 19:59:14 UTC

This is how Hex became a trade Hub, it was decided in here to make it one.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-04-20 20:51:00 UTC
I hear VFK is a rather OK hub.
Lord Dravius
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-04-21 12:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Dravius
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Try to make a low or null sec "tradehub" and it will experience the "Camped-ganked-dried out and died" combo.

I'm making an alt that can fly T2 industrials and I was thinking about using the cloaky one to do exactly what you're talking about. If not at one central location then at several. Having lived in low sec I know that it's hard to find what you want to buy and even when you do it's usually badly overpriced. Or at least that's how it was when I lived there. There's probably profit to be made by hauling things there to sell instead of Jita or whatever.
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#32 - 2012-04-21 14:10:26 UTC
The sheer volume required to get a hub self-sustaining would require whole fleets of blockade runners. The only way I can see anyone manufacturing a true low-sec trade hub would be to have a large corp, if not alliance, dedicated to keeping the system gank-free. Basically one large player-run NRDS Concord. Otherwise there would simply be too many opportunities to gank. It would be kind of cool though, have a player-policed pirate haven.
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#33 - 2012-04-21 15:38:10 UTC
I too had hoped to create sort of a pirate jita. I had hoped to use a decent system along a lowsec pipeline next to a highsec island to produce mass quantities next store and hull it to the pipeline system deep in lowsec. I think leaving it lawless would work just fine, I wouldn't bother with trying to hull mass quanitites of something out however unless it's protected etc. I dunno, I've skills to complete before trying such endeavor.

Otherwise... we could like... band together, I'm glad I'm not the only one with crazy ideas.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?

MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-04-21 17:23:11 UTC
Covops transports to 0.0 - The amount of freight required to support even a moderate 0.0 trade hub makes covops transports a ludicrous proposition. They can supply small niche demands, but any serious logistics would only be feasible with Jump Freighters.

Lowsec Tradehub - Unrealistic, lowsec populations are too dispersed and traveling to a hub would be too dangerous. Also pirates generally have their own personal/corp logistics already.

Creating a new highsec hub - The problem is that hubs are a self perpetuating loop. A hub has lots of buyers/sellers, buyers & sellers attract traders, traders compete with each other reducing price spreads, low price spreads attract buyers/sellers, repeat. When creating a new hub there is less competition, and so more spread creating profit margin for traders, but those bad prices will cause buyers/sellers to seek out the existing market hubs. What you would need is a bunch of traders willing to take very small profits for months for the purpose of establishing the new hub, and creating the critical mass necessary to make it a self perpetuating hub.
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#35 - 2012-04-21 19:24:27 UTC
If it fails it fails, I understand the daunting odds against it, but I'd like to say I tried it. Sometimes you got to touch fire to know it burns.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?

Aileen Morex
Morex Group Inc.
Haven.
#36 - 2012-04-22 06:06:34 UTC
Dr Silkworth wrote:
Minmatar needs to annex some gallente space.


Minmatar needs to annex Amarr space since they probably stole it from them in the first place.
papamike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-04-22 14:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: papamike
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
If it fails it fails, I understand the daunting odds against it, but I'd like to say I tried it. Sometimes you got to touch fire to know it burns.


Forget about the nay sayers, Ive been trying to do exactly what you propose. Ive sort of put the idea on the shelf and reduced my original vision from 'creating a low sec market hub' to simply 'seeding a low sec system for profit'. The only reason ive done this is because as it was pointed out, its alot of work. Regardless, for the particular system in question I can probably boast supplying single handedly 80% of its t2 module sales and around 40% of its ammo sales.

I did have plans to scale up manufacture of ships in system, and start listing buy orders for minerals to encourage localised sales at competitive price points and margins that would see profit if I was to on sell to Jita but unfortunately I have a life outside of Eve and it was simply too big of a bite to take.

Its certainly do-able for a co-op of traders, but the 'how to' is eluding me, and ive sort of gone away from the idea. The current mechanics of a corporation doesnt really make sense for it, perhaps an alliance would though, where marketteers could enter the alliance for standings and possibly protection via pvp orientated corps within the alliance, whilst paying some sort of royalty system.

Like I said, its sort of beyond my personal capability to do something like this single handedly, but Id love to hear from other investors and small to medium sized traders who could be interested in setting something like this up.


EDIT: I should note that the test system I chose to see if this was a viable business plan was actually a fairly quiet system in the grand scheme of things but it had a few things going for it in terms of its location and geo-political situation. The test run ran for 3 months and although I dont have exact figures (because I cant seem to get EMMA to work nor find a 3rd party program that can calculate NAV/ time) I can say that it was certainly profitable and I saw alot of population growth and market turn over once the local residents realised that the system had been seeded with pretty much everything they needed for daily pew pew. Id imagine the growth will increase even more when I can get the capital to start seeding ships as well.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#38 - 2012-04-22 23:22:44 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Just picking between Oursulaert and Dodixie would help.


Oursulaert is the better choice. It tends to have all the right sorts of stations and is close to Nullsec. Dodixie is just a mission hub. It's sort of like the system the epic arc starts in, (Arnon), as far as that is concerned. It does open the way to a few other areas but from all appearances Oursulaert is the better locale. The only problem there is the price and availability, which could easily be fixed.

The alternative is moving the Trade Hub to another location which may well be in Amarr or other territories. I'm sure there is a better location than either of those however, but it also needs to have plenty of manufacturing lines and some R&D. Oursulaert already has that, even if the locaion is not exactly ideal. Dodixie is somewhat lacking and being a mission hub doesn't help when you consider the increase to trade traffic it may well see.

I'm up for the idea though. Anyone willing to select a location and begin working on developing a new trade hub, feel free to. It might even get me interested in playing the game again, rather than just training SP. Something I wanted to do early on, but limited interest got in the way. There are not a lot of people that want this, or even want to see space opened up by trade and more areas made less remote and more feasible for players to move into or stay around.

Personally, I'd go with Minmatar Space and focus on moving towards the Molden Heath region with a focus on The Great Wildlands and other areas of Nullsec beyond that.
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#39 - 2012-04-23 13:34:39 UTC
I've never understood the draw of Oursulaert. The only region that it borders is Genesis and it's 2 jumps away from Sinq.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Genesis/Ourapheh
- Genesis region
- Verge Vendor, Sinq Laison and Essence are all next-door.
- Next door to the old Yulai
- Has an amazing amount of connections.

Even Renyn (next to Oursulaert) would seem to be a better location the Oursulaert.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#40 - 2012-04-23 16:06:25 UTC
Why isn't the central hub in the CONCORD Assembly? I mean people love to be care bars and all that fun stuff right? I'm pretty sure having your freighter murderified in Jita is only fun so many times. So, why isn't it in the assembly? It's practically smack dab in the middle of the 4 empires.
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