Market Discussions

Absolutely... peasants should always be taxed... repeatedly.

As for what KIND of taxes.... DOCKING FEEs... scaled against the size of ship docking... modified downwards (or upwards) by the Standings of the pilot versus the owner of the station.


Mook

What about some fees to use star gates. By some reasons they let us use them for free. Fee bases on ship size?

What about some kind of jump bride system in high sec owned my the factions or CONCORD. You can get 10-20 jumps in one goo, but you have to pay a premium isk prise. Should I jump 20 jump or pay x m isk to cut it down alot... ofc AP should me made slower to may it even less interesting to use. Increase warp into from 15km to 50 km... making afk traveling less common...hence more should sue premium travel services. Issue is how/if this should be integraded with low and nullsec traveling in any way.

It's already being effective.

Naw... DOCKING FEEs all the way, baby.

Some folks hardly ever leave a system... but they dock a hundred times because of the usual activities... mining, missioning, whatever.

And DOCKING FEEs may seem unfair, but they cheerfully screw botters, as well, being creatures also known to dock repeatedly.


Mook

I agree with everything Scrapyard Bob mentioned except #5, which would create an ISK sink, but also only increase prices while also stifling competiton. And stifling competition isn't a good idea. (Even when competition creates very annoying nubs selling their ships on Dixie market millions of ISK below all the other sell orders and making Hurricanes a profit of 250k/each instead of 3m each.. I'm really tempted to buy one, get who it is, and then put my main in my alt corp and wardec them for doing that...)

I do think higher sale taxes is a good idea though. Yes, this will increase ship and item costs, but that is made up for by the positives of creative an ISK sink as well as allowing for standings and skills to create a more substantial effect on your ability to sell for profit. You'll find more industrialists putting some real effort into raising standings if you make the different between 2.0 and 7.0 standings change your taxes by a full 2%. (At 8.48% standings and level 3 Accounting and Broker Relations (training to 4 now, yeye), I'm getting an absolute total of 1.27% in taxes. Taxes should be a minimum of something around 2.5%, with maximum for an unskilled and no-standing character be around 15%. This also creates the possibility of mission runners hiring out standing services to industrialists.

If I understand you correctly you are saying station trade taxes will be passed on to the consumer. The whole point of my post was to point out that it will NOT be passed on. Instead, big operations will simply build things from top to bottom tax free (vertical integration) while the small guys will be forced out of the market due to loses from taxes.

I highly doubt NPC corp mission runners account for a large portion of the isk faucets from bounties. It seems much more likely that 0.0 bots, complexes, anomalies, and ratters are the ones who take the lions share of bounties.

The massive printing of isk is totally unbalanced and undoubtedly a major cause of inflation. However, station trade taxes are a terrible isk sink. The most obvious solution is to hack bounties and isk faucets in general across the board until they match isk sinks. The isk can be replace with materials or something else (monocles? ).

I say 'tough cookies' to that.

Here's the reality. CCP isn't going to touch either the null sec or the high sec bounty payouts and have made that obvious. Otherwise they would have done it a long time ago (this is a long term problem). The reason they will never touch the null sec payouts is that they have made it a core game design goal to make Null Sec more lucrative in all ways over any other region in order to balance the risk/reward ratio that null sec needs to attract players. Being constantly blown up makes the lossess of null sec pretty high, and thus they will not changes anything to make the isk potential of the null sec regions any less.

Additionally, the hi sec missioners are probably one of the more substantial groups in Eve in numbers (remember that 60-70 percent of players live in hi-sec), and CCP fears their rage quits and forum rage if they substantially nerf their income.... CCP likely fears the missioner group more than the industry group.

So no matter how much we want it, me included, decreasing bounties isn't going to happen.

In regards to verticle intergration...tough. It is more important for CCP to successfully sink isk out the game to bring stability to the economy, than it is to protect 1man+alt corps. This is Eve, adapt. If taxes makes it hard for middile manufacturers to compete, they will just have to adjust by joining larger corps that *are* vertically integrating, or start vertically intergrating themselves. Bring on the Age of the Robber Barons!!!.... John D. Rockefeller would be proud.

Of course, if CCP wanted to throw the middle manufacturer a bone, they could provide loopholes such as exempting private contracts (not public or course) from all taxes. Those adept enough to be able to forge established intercorprate deals with suppliers, manufacturers, and distributors would be able to survive... this is supposed to be a game of multiplayer corps and multiplayer cooperation right?

Higher taxes are coming. Its already been stated by CCP. They will probably wait until the mid-point between releases to do it in order not to make too many new changes too quickly, is my guess. But I'll bet my freighter that they will eventually be here before the Winter.

So, for the question of verticle intergration, guess what my new corp name is going to be... Standard Oil.. This is Eve...survival of the fittest in PvP doesn't just pertain to pew-pew. Adapt... or give me all your stuff.

You get cookies... cookies which are tough... oh, and a more stable game economy.

I guess we could have floormats for our clone vats. Would that count as universal healthcare?

It works totally opposite. Don't get me wrong, I am against botting, but the mining bots kept the mineral prices low.

Problems are Hulkmageddon, PI instead of NPC POS fuel supply, reduced drop (which increases the mineral / module prices), removing the drone minerals (which will make miners to mine other ores, AND increase ISK supply from bounties).

If we consider this, we can see that CCP is making everything to increase inflation, as there is less and less ISK faucets... (the only two things they did was reducing bounties and removing insurance for suicide gankers).

Reading all the various posts and some people seem to post without reading what was said before them.

To the point,
There's on average 24 Trillion isk spare every month, if i were them, my goal would be to cut that down slowly until it reachs a yearly growth of 1-3% relative to all the isk in the game(the inflation goal).

yes they added bounties, but they're making incursions last longer, drasticly lowering isk per hour.
i think that a 1% tax/broker increase and setting the NPC tax to 15% will have a bigger impact than most of us realize, and it will significantly reduce the amount of ISK being printed monthly.
maybe not enough, but that's a good way to start, you do not want to over-change something so that you'll have to fix it back.

johnny