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Foe symmetry's sake, should there not be a 6th pirate BS?
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2011-09-28 18:56:28 UTC
I was idly looking at the pirate faction BS's...

Caldari/Amarr: 1
Caldari/Gallente: 1
Minnie/Amarr: 1
Minnie/Gallente: 2

Basically, the Gallente and Minnie skills are used in 3 Pirate BS's, while Amarr and Caldari skills are used in 2.

To create symmetry, should there not be a second Amarr/Caldari BS?
There are the 2 Minnie/Gallente BS's: Mach and Vindi.

I believe the same pattern applies to cruisers.

Now, CCP has TONS and TONS of more pressing issues, but I would think adding another faction BS would be relatively low-hanging fruit, and adding this little bit of content might actually show that CCP's heart is indeed in the right place.

Maybe introduce this about the same time as the hybrid buff?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#2 - 2011-09-28 18:58:14 UTC
EoM?

The Drake is a Lie
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#3 - 2011-09-28 18:59:04 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Maybe introduce this about the same time as the hybrid buff?


Do you want that new BS or not ?
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#4 - 2011-09-28 19:27:08 UTC
If you really want a balanced set you should have 6 BS using all possible combinations instead of 2 minmatar - gallente ships. For example:


1. Amarr - Caldari: Nightmare - Shieldtanking lazorboat
2. Amarr - Minmatar: Bhaalgorn - Neuting/webbing armortanked lazorboat
3. Amarr - Gallente: Vindicator (changed) - Neuting armortanked blasterboat (bonus changed from webberspeed to neuts)
4. Gallente - Caldari: Rattlesnake - Shieldtanking drone/missileboat
5. Minmatar - Gallente: Machariel - Flexibly tanked projectile gunboat witha huge falloffbonus
6. Minmatar - Caldari: NEW BS - Armortanked ECM/Gunboat (projectiles)

EoM could be used I guess, but presently they fly Khanid looking ships.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#5 - 2011-09-28 19:28:16 UTC
Symmetry? In my EVE?

Unthinkable!
Myxx
The Scope
#6 - 2011-09-28 19:36:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
If you really want a balanced set you should have 6 BS using all possible combinations instead of 2 minmatar - gallente ships. For example:


1. Amarr - Caldari: Nightmare - Shieldtanking lazorboat
2. Amarr - Minmatar: Bhaalgorn - Neuting/webbing armortanked lazorboat
3. Amarr - Gallente: Vindicator (changed) - Neuting armortanked blasterboat (bonus changed from webberspeed to neuts)
4. Gallente - Caldari: Rattlesnake - Shieldtanking drone/missileboat
5. Minmatar - Gallente: Machariel - Flexibly tanked projectile gunboat witha huge falloffbonus
6. Minmatar - Caldari: NEW BS - Armortanked ECM/Gunboat (projectiles)

EoM could be used I guess, but presently they fly Khanid looking ships.


Except that the Vindicator is a Serpentis ship, and Serpentis are Cartel (basically) hence Gal/minnie for it and the mach. So instead I'd propose the creation of two more battleships TwistedEvil

The EoM though... I can DEFINITELY see being a Gallente/Amaarian hybrid what with the Gallente 'death' motif (ie, look at Macaper's prophecy, the Erebus flavor text, the Gallente pantheon mythos, etc)
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#7 - 2011-09-28 19:39:54 UTC
Myxx wrote:
Except that the Vindicator is a Serpentis ship, and Serpentis are Cartel (basically) hence Gal/minnie for it and the mach. So instead I'd propose the creation of two more battleships TwistedEvil



Yeah the lore isnt symmetrical either hehe
Jita Alt666
#8 - 2011-09-28 20:02:11 UTC
^^this: Caldari a powerful corporate state - who hate Gallente and dislike Minmatar. Amarr a powerful religious state who hate Minmatar and dislike Gallente.

Gallente a large democratic mish mash of individual freedom - who hate Caldari and dislike Amarr. Minmatar ex slaves - who hate their former Amarr masters and dislike Caldari.

On the surface which of those combinations is more likely to indulge in pirate activites?
Myxx
The Scope
#9 - 2011-09-28 20:07:33 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
^^this: Caldari a powerful corporate state - who hate Gallente and dislike Minmatar. Amarr a powerful religious state who hate Minmatar and dislike Gallente.

Gallente a large democratic mish mash of individual freedom - who hate Caldari and dislike Amarr. Minmatar ex slaves - who hate their former Amarr masters and dislike Caldari.

On the surface which of those combinations is more likely to indulge in pirate activites?


Amaar/Gal- EoM Apocalypse, long range laser, armor repping, nos boat
Minnie/Caldari - Tornado BS, missile/autocannon, sheild repping ecm boat from mordu's legion perhaps?
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#10 - 2011-09-28 20:26:08 UTC
Symmetry, while aesthetically appealing, is not always possible or needed. Not to sound like a bitter vet, because I am not in game long enough to be, but fix what you have before you add more. That being said they have a BS hull from the DA contest that is supposed to be introduced at some point. Unfortunately, the hull probably does not fit visually into any of the neglected combos if my memory serves me good.

Jita Alt666 wrote:
^^this: Caldari a powerful corporate state - who hate Gallente and dislike Minmatar. Amarr a powerful religious state who hate Minmatar and dislike Gallente.

Gallente a large democratic mish mash of individual freedom - who hate Caldari and dislike Amarr. Minmatar ex slaves - who hate their former Amarr masters and dislike Caldari.

On the surface which of those combinations is more likely to indulge in pirate activites?


When dealing with the pirate lore you can throw out the Empire squibble squabble.


Slade
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2011-09-28 21:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
For symmetry's sake, there should be far more than that…

Unfortunately, we have neither the [code] or the [img] tag to create a proper table over the combination and the gaps i the game, so a simple list will have to do:

    Amarr primary skill:
  • Amarr Navy
  • w/ Caldari: Sansha (friendly)
  • w/ Gallente: missing
  • w/ Minmatar: Blood Raiders (enemy)

    • Caldari primary skill:
  • Caldari Navy
  • w/ Amarr: missing
  • w/ Gallente: Guristas (enemy)
  • w/ Minmatar: missing

    • Gallente primary skill:
  • Federation Navy
  • w/ Amarr: missing
  • w/ Caldari: missing
  • w/ Minmatar: Serpentis (friendly)

    • Minmatar primary skill:
  • Republic Fleet
  • w/ Amarr: missing
  • w/ Caldari: missing
  • w/ Gallente: Angels (friendly)

By "primary", I here mean the ship skill that is listed first in the prereq list. Why make the distinction? Because of the Minny/Gallente combos, where you have two pirate factions that use the same skill set, only they're listed in different order. The primary skill also indicates in which regions the pirate faction appears “in the wild.”

Just looking at the Minny/Gal combo, it might seem logical to have two Amarr/Caldari combos (and there are several likely candidates), but then the Blood Raiders and Guristas come along and screw up that idea by having cross-opponent collaborations.

So this means we have a number of missing slots, which could conceivably be filled with some of the (sub)factions currently in the game. Eg.…

    Amarr Primary
  • w/ Gallente: No proper fit. The Syndicate / Intaki are available but there is more of a connection to Caldari (both lore-wise and geographically), but that particular pairing turns out to be quite common.

    • Caldari Primary
  • w/ Amarr: EOM
  • w/ Minmatar: Mercs.

    • Gallente Primary
  • w/ Amarr: No proper fit… EOM comes closest but is taken (unless the Caldari/Amarr slot is given to Khanid, which makes sense lore-wise, but they already have a legitimate T2 ship manufacturer).
  • w/ Caldari: Mordu's Legion

    • Minmatar Primary
  • w/ Amarr: Ammatar
  • w/ Caldari: Again, no proper fit. Possibly Thukker, since they're available, but there is no reason to include a Caldari strain into the mix.
Kumisaapas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-09-28 22:45:09 UTC
Myxx wrote:

Amaar/Gal- EoM Apocalypse, long range laser, armor repping, nos boat
Minnie/Caldari - Tornado BS, missile/autocannon, sheild repping ecm boat from mordu's legion perhaps?


Whats the deal with the Tornado, is there any word how they plan to introduce it. Is it going to be a tournament prize or something?
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-09-28 23:07:17 UTC
^^^ It is coming in Decembers release.

Personally i think a Caldari/Amarr boat should be an armour tanked missile boat, with bonuses to torp range (20% per level) and damage, and an ECM bonus

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#14 - 2011-09-28 23:27:31 UTC
When I started this thread I was hoping to keep it simple, something that CCP could easily pick up on (one ship).

But it appears some of you have given this a LOT of thought.
Cool stuff, but maybe too much at the moment.

Hell, who am I kidding?
CCP can't even add ONE ship presently.
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-09-29 02:15:45 UTC
Headerman wrote:
^^^ It is coming in Decembers release.

Personally i think a Caldari/Amarr boat should be an armour tanked missile boat, with bonuses to torp range (20% per level) and damage, and an ECM bonus

Because that won't be OP - shooting torps while perma jamming @ 60+ km??
Jita Alt666
#16 - 2011-09-29 02:17:53 UTC
Myxx wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
^^this: Caldari a powerful corporate state - who hate Gallente and dislike Minmatar. Amarr a powerful religious state who hate Minmatar and dislike Gallente.

Gallente a large democratic mish mash of individual freedom - who hate Caldari and dislike Amarr. Minmatar ex slaves - who hate their former Amarr masters and dislike Caldari.

On the surface which of those combinations is more likely to indulge in pirate activites?


Amaar/Gal- EoM Apocalypse, long range laser, armor repping, nos boat
Minnie/Caldari - Tornado BS, missile/autocannon, sheild repping ecm boat from mordu's legion perhaps?



You missed the lore point:
caldari and minmatar do not work together
gallente and amarr do not work together
their history will not allow such travesties to occur
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#17 - 2011-09-29 02:34:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Hell, who am I kidding?
CCP can't even add ONE ship presently.




CCP? Add Ship? Ahahahaha - they can't even make a simple, entirely irrelevant balance change to existing ships noone cares about.

Like increasing logistics warp speed which was announced months ago.

Nobody cared about it, because of warp speed not really being overly significant due to FU game mechanics. And yeah - logistics really needed some love (as opposed to gallenteRoll)...

Now nerfing the dramiel - I bet the poor CCP employee working on eve starts screaming and flailing his arms - it only ruined frig pvp for two years - let's make sure to not nerf it too hard, mkay?

I wonder how you manage to still live, given how long it must take you to make a really serious decision, like breathing in or out (I know it's kind of hard if you only have your mouth to accomplish either, but sheesh - get a grip...).
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-09-29 02:48:32 UTC
Noctis?

T3's?

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-09-29 02:49:52 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Headerman wrote:
^^^ It is coming in Decembers release.

Personally i think a Caldari/Amarr boat should be an armour tanked missile boat, with bonuses to torp range (20% per level) and damage, and an ECM bonus

Because that won't be OP - shooting torps while perma jamming @ 60+ km??


Ok, 60km is way OP, oops Oops

still, i am sticking with the basic idea

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#20 - 2011-09-29 02:59:07 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Noctis?

T3's?



Noctis - yeah - nice garbage collector I guess, not really interfering with anything but non-minmatar garbage trucks *cough* catalyst.

T3's were added with apocrypha - the last decent expansion which was over 2.5 years ago - and they're still lacking balance and the 5th subsystem.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
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