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Inject skills you're not trained for? Skill queue joy?
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Oregin
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#1 - 2012-04-17 20:37:03 UTC
This has occurred to me many a time, i've been carrying around a skill book that I can't inject because the prereq skill is currently training. Then I have to queue another lower priority skill or log in as soon as the skill training is complete.

Don't get me wrong, I've done the whole alarm clock, middle of the night skill training changes but this was before the skill queue. Way back before the skill queue I wouldn't have thought about it but recently it's bugged me. If we can queue the skills then why can't we inject skills so that they can be added to the queue if the prereqs would be met at that time?

It's not like I'm training short skills either at the moment but it still bugs me, I imagine it's a bit of a fuss for younger players...

Any downsides to be able to inject skills at level 0 without prereq skills being met?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-04-17 20:45:36 UTC
I think the issue lies in the checks to see if you can train a skill. Once a skill is injected, the game assumes you can train it and doesn't check to see if you meet the prereqs to train it.

And it's one of those touchy core systems that CCP avoids touching unless there's a really good reason for it (and this is just a "kinda nice" thing).
Quade Warren
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-04-17 20:49:14 UTC
Oregin wrote:
This has occurred to me many a time, i've been carrying around a skill book that I can't inject because the prereq skill is currently training. Then I have to queue another lower priority skill or log in as soon as the skill training is complete.

Don't get me wrong, I've done the whole alarm clock, middle of the night skill training changes but this was before the skill queue. Way back before the skill queue I wouldn't have thought about it but recently it's bugged me. If we can queue the skills then why can't we inject skills so that they can be added to the queue if the prereqs would be met at that time?

It's not like I'm training short skills either at the moment but it still bugs me, I imagine it's a bit of a fuss for younger players...

Any downsides to be able to inject skills at level 0 without prereq skills being met?



Actually, I don't see a downside as long as there is a restriction on if you can train it. I don't see any loopholes beyond that. I have the same problem as I'm sure hundreds of Eve players do, especially if you're skilling up in a wormhole.

I would be fine with this only if the obvious was taken into account. I can inject, but I can't train it until prereqs are met.

Then again, what's to keep everyone from having all skills at level 0 and only meeting prereqs in order to train them up? I think it would lead to this kind of suggestion/demand. If that happens, the grand ol' isk sink of skill buying goes away. I know when I skilled up for caps that purchasing the skill books for it was painful. This was a good thing, because I appreciated what I could do afterwards.

So I suppose in the end, I don't support this idea for what I stated above. I really think the player base would demand that they have every skill book and if CCP's only excuse is "but we need you to spend your isk on them," I don't think it'd be received well. Trust me, flying through low/null to get to my wormhole entry with two or three capital skill books was nerve wracking, but I think I'd rather have my nerves wracked. =)
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#4 - 2012-04-17 20:50:27 UTC
mxzf wrote:
I think the issue lies in the checks to see if you can train a skill. Once a skill is injected, the game assumes you can train it and doesn't check to see if you meet the prereqs to train it.

And it's one of those touchy core systems that CCP avoids touching unless there's a really good reason for it (and this is just a "kinda nice" thing).


From what a corp mate was telling me lately, this is not true....

For example, if you have a cyno alt that has electrnoics V and cyno III, and he gets podded and loses Electronics V cause he forgot to update his clone... he will NOT be able to train cyno level IV until he re-trains Electronics V.....

The reason they don't allow you to premature inject skills, is they want you to risk losing them. If you can't inject it right away, then you have to move the skill around with your character, so you can inject it once you have the pre-req skills trained. I have acrued quite the number of random skillbooks from people I kill that were carrying the skillbook in their hull.

Belshazzar Babylon
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-04-18 08:26:29 UTC
If I'm waiting for something to train to lvl 3 or 4 before I can train for the next skill EVEMON tells me and I have room in the queu and I'm going to bed I'll just put in something I've put off training to V. Get up the next morning take out what I was training to V and inject the new skill.
Crystalis Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-04-18 08:57:43 UTC
I think it is explained why this shouldn't be done in game mechanic wise so I don't touch that, but instead going to OP how alarm clock in middle of the night - situation can be avoided.

In eve there is no situation where there is one big line of skills where higher skill needs lower skill trained in order to get what you want. Example for battleship:
Ship skills are its own line, guns are its own line, tanking modules are its own line, maneuvering, drones etc... totally independent from one another.

So easy way to solve the problem is to train alternate skills while meeting requirement for another skill. Example:
You have to wait 5 hours to complete cruiser skill to be able to train battleship but you don't want to wake up in middle of the night. Instead of leaving training queue partially filled, you can put gun skills in place so training time doesn't go waste and switch to train battleship skill when you wake up.
Josef Stylin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-04-18 11:23:25 UTC
mxzf wrote:
I think the issue lies in the checks to see if you can train a skill. Once a skill is injected, the game assumes you can train it and doesn't check to see if you meet the prereqs to train it.

And it's one of those touchy core systems that CCP avoids touching unless there's a really good reason for it (and this is just a "kinda nice" thing).


Actually, that's incorrect. I recently lost Evasive Manoeuvring V after forgetting to upgrade my clone, and though I haven't lost my Interceptor skill, I cannot train it higher until I get EM V again.
NiGhTTraX
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-06-11 21:58:57 UTC  |  Edited by: NiGhTTraX
This should be implemented. There's no good reason to force a player to wait with a skillbook in his hanger for the prereqs to be met. Think of how much time you wast when you're in null and need a new skill, you pod back to empire, inject the prereqs, pod back to null, train them there, then pod back to empire and inject the skill. It adds nothing to the game but annoyance.

Injecting a skill for which you don't have the prereqs is like putting an advanced physics book in your backpack whilst not having read the physics book yet. I don't see any problem with that. It makes much more sense this way, it saves time and lets you focus on what's important.

Think of large T2 guns. You have to train each size to lvl V, then train each spec, first small, then medium and lastly large. You can't inject large spec until you've trained medium spec. Give us the possibility to inject any skill and disable training them if the prereqs are not met.

If you're gonna post here thinking your idea is the greatest thing since bacon and that it will save EVE and possibly all humankind with it, you're gonna have a bad time.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#9 - 2012-06-11 22:13:44 UTC

Again,

There is a very good reason this is NOT allowed:

You take away the risk of losing that skill when you inject it!!!!!!! Carrying a skillbook with you is RISKY, as someone can blow up your ship and you lose the skillbook!!!

The ONLY way I can think of to balance the risks with a "I can plug in a skill even if I haven't met the prereqs" mechanic, is if you LOSE the skill if you are podded and haven't trained it yet.

Personally, I prefer forcing people to bring the skillbook with them, so I can get my filthy hands on it when I blow up their covops that stupidly warped gate-to-gate into my drag bubble.
NiGhTTraX
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-06-11 22:25:57 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

The ONLY way I can think of to balance the risks with a "I can plug in a skill even if I haven't met the prereqs" mechanic, is if you LOSE the skill if you are podded and haven't trained it yet.


If you do that then you won't solve anything. People will stay docked up so as not to risk losing the skill, which was kinda the problem in the first place.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Personally, I prefer forcing people to bring the skillbook with them, so I can get my filthy hands on it when I blow up their covops that stupidly warped gate-to-gate into my drag bubble.


Really? You make a living off cheap skillbooks? I'm pretty sure noone caries a titan skillbook with them, just some 1-2 mil skills that you won't be able to sell anyway.

If you're gonna post here thinking your idea is the greatest thing since bacon and that it will save EVE and possibly all humankind with it, you're gonna have a bad time.